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  • Originally posted by rjpalmer View Post

    Erobitha, you might want to read the following:

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs...297-story.html

    The two snipers were caught completely by accident as they slept in a rest area. The profilers weren't even remotely accurate. They were wrong in nearly every detail.

    Most suggested the sniper would be a lone white male in his early 20s, a local chap who drove a white van, probably as a delivery driver.

    The real snipers were two black dudes, unemployed, from well outside of the area who drove a blue car.
    None of those experts were actually working live on the case so you cant say the profiling didn’t help. If they were not active FBI profilers with insight the public did not have you simply cannot seriously value their expertise bring all that useful. They were fools to offer advice on a live case that they didn’t have all the information for.

    Jim Clemente was an FBI profiler who did work on the actual case and here’s his take from 11mins in this video:
    https://youtu.be/LHqbfJ3tq4Y
    Last edited by erobitha; 09-11-2020, 07:16 AM.
    "When the legend becomes fact... print the legend"
    - The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)

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    • Very interesting, erobitha.

      It just shows you how hard it is to get it right when you don't have all the information to work from and you are really just generalising and speculating about human behaviour and motivation. Easier if you are hands-on, wading through the mud, than if you are looking down from a helicopter.

      Love,

      Caz
      X

      "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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      • Seems to me that the detectives on the case would use profiling in searching for serial killers, but how much faith would they have in it? Knowing it could send them completely off the scent and in the wrong direction.

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        • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

          None of those experts were actually working live on the case so you cant say the profiling didn’t help. If they were not active FBI profilers with insight the public did not have you simply cannot seriously value their expertise bring all that useful. They were fools to offer advice on a live case that they didn’t have all the information for.

          Jim Clemente was an FBI profiler who did work on the actual case and here’s his take from 11mins in this video:
          https://youtu.be/LHqbfJ3tq4Y
          what a bunch of bullshit. i lived through the sniper shooting while it was happening living in md and all the profilers were saying look out for single white male. so if this clown was actually working the case hes either lying now about the profile (having the advantage of hindsite)or he was right then and didnt get the message out. of course its the former but either way its still BS. thes fbi profilers not only think they invented the technique-they didnt.. bond did one for the ripper, there was one done by a psychologist in the mad bomber case for examples, they think theyve solved or helped solve everything. and this guy says his profile helped catch the dc snipers. balderdash. it was good old fashion police and detective work. fingerprints, tracking the car, knocking on doors.

          sure profiling can be helpful, but take it with a grain of salt. especially when it comes straight from the mouth of one of these guys. they have anderson like egos and self aggrandizement.


          that being said, the fbi database however, does actually help catch bad guys.
          Last edited by Abby Normal; 09-11-2020, 01:52 PM.
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

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          • Originally posted by erobitha View Post

            None of those experts were actually working live on the case so you cant say the profiling didn’t help.
            Sure I can.

            We know why the snipers were captured.

            Muhammad was captured because he and Malvo were sleeping in a car in a rest area late at night, which attracted attention. Muhammad was already on the police radar because a guy named Robert Holmes, back in Tacoma, Washington, had called the police and warned them that Muhammad had been building homemade silencers for his rifle, and had been boasting how easy it would be to carry on a sniper attack.

            Rather than helping, the profile probably prevented the two men from being captured earlier:

            "We were looking for a white van with white people, and we ended up with a blue car with black people" - D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey, the head of the investigation.

            And here's the kicker:

            "the culprit car had attracted police attention at least 10 times during the critical period, once on an overnight stopover in Baltimore when Mohammed displayed his authentic Washington state driver's license, and was waved on his way in an old Chevy bearing New Jersey tags, headed toward the next set of shootings in Virginia.

            Wrong place, wrong ages, wrong race -- the wrong men, if the jury is made up of profilers."


            In other words, the two men were never fully questioned, because the police had already convinced themselves what the killer would look like.

            It was the tip by Robert Holmes that solved the case. Indeed, he was given a $350,000 reward.

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            • Well the bobbies in Whitechapel were probably looking for a half mad slavering caricature of a Russian Jew!! If JtR was a gent....

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              • On the matter of profiling, I recently posted about Simon Farquhar's book 'A dangerous place' about the Railway Rapists case in the 80's in London, it was one one of the first British cases to seriously use profiling, it wasn't spot on, but close in many aspects. What's interesting is that the author quotes the profiler with the benefit of hindsight, and the profiler acknowledges that awareness of other cases would have improved the profile, but this was early days. So, they got it really accurate and useful way back then, even before it was taken as seriously as today. The Washington Sniper profile was a shambles. And cost lives. The issue isn't the profile, but why law enforcement shut off to any other angle.

                As for motivation, the Railway Rapists were proving their masculinity and their ability to dominate others. Both victims of childhood bullying and inferiority complexes.
                Thems the Vagaries.....

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