Double Event Timeline

[Cogidubnus]

She could have been going to Bishopsgate Police Station to tell them who she believed the Ripper was. She could also have been trying to sell the information to a Fleet Street journalist. If she knew something (or even if she thought she did), it would be logical to try and get money on the strength of it.

It's a theory....

If (monstrously big if this one) she was drinking in the same pub as JtR and started shouting the odds about knowing the killer's identity, what would his next move be? Follow her & try to find out what, if anything, she did know? If he saw her get arrested before he had a chance to speak to her, what would his Plan 'B' be? (alliteration again, Dave!). Wait around until she was released? Find out what, if anything, she'd told the cops? Kill her anyway, just to be on the safe side?

....but where and how does this fit in with the double event timeline?

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

I don't think she was going to Bermondsey at all - I think she was going out to earn money the only way she knew how

She could have been going to Bishopsgate Police Station to tell them who she believed the Ripper was. She could also have been trying to sell the information to a Fleet Street journalist. If she knew something (or even if she thought she did), it would be logical to try and get money on the strength of it.

If (monstrously big if this one) she was drinking in the same pub as JtR and started shouting the odds about knowing the killer's identity, what would his next move be? Follow her & try to find out what, if anything, she did know? If he saw her get arrested before he had a chance to speak to her, what would his Plan 'B' be? (alliteration again, Dave!). Wait around until she was released? Find out what, if anything, she'd told the cops? Kill her anyway, just to be on the safe side? There must be a chance, at least, that she was killed by someone who was waiting for her.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

More Heep perhaps?

I don't think she was going to Bermondsey at all - I think she was going out to earn money the only way she knew how...but of course Kelly couldn't admit that to the police could he? Another possible factor in his delay in coming forward I'd say!

And if, as I would contend, he was at least partly living off Kate and her earnings, that's another good reason, in my book, to diminish suspicions of his killing her!

Possible too that Wilkinson could be advancing credit on the basis of Kate's earnings...we don't know though do we?

Always be 'umble mate!

Dave

[lynn cates]

Ebenezer Scrounge

Hello Dave. He may have been a professional scrounge. And the deputy, Wilkinson, may have given him credit, so why run off to Bermondsey at all?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

You may well have me there but...

Still wondering how the "broke" John Kelly survived on nothing whilst Kate was "seeking funds."

I always saw him as a Wilkins Micawber type of character!

Dave

[lynn cates]

press

Hello Dave.

"I think there'd be at least a general air of anticipation, fanned by the daily admonitions of the press."

But the press had begun to cool as well.

Still wondering how the "broke" John Kelly survived on nothing whilst Kate was "seeking funds."

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Shinto Susurrations (Chinese whispers?)

Hi Lynn

"I expect the whole of Whitechapel had been discussing the WCM. . ."
Likely true 3 weeks before; not so much at the time.

I don't expect there was that much else to talk about Lynn...I think there'd be at least a general air of anticipation, fanned by the daily admonitions of the press.

"but equally if the whole of Whitechapel had been so concerned every time a relative/friend was delayed . . ."
But for how long? A few hours? OK. But a few days?

I think we underestimate the deep suspicion with which the police were held by many in the East End community...I think some would have swallowed hot gravel before voluntarily visiting a police station...and, thereagain, in an era before phones and ready communication I think people were far more inured to being apart than we are today...

I suppose it's also possible she'd gone walkabout before...

Dave

[lynn cates]

alliterate man

Hello Dave. Well, if you want alliteration, "Shintoists don't come shattering sheet glass and shouting slogans." (heh-heh)

"I expect the whole of Whitechapel had been discussing the WCM. . ."

Likely true 3 weeks before; not so much at the time.

" . . .but equally if the whole of Whitechapel had been so concerned every time a relative/friend was delayed . . ."

But for how long? A few hours? OK. But a few days?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Just as well they're not susurrating too!

D

[Cogidubnus]

So he continues NOT to seek her whereabouts? No frantic search--especially as they had been discussing the WCM?

I expect the whole of Whitechapel had been discussing the WCM...but equally if the whole of Whitechapel had been so concerned every time a relative/friend was delayed, every street would've been a seething cess of searching souls (how's that for alliteration?)...

Cheers

Dave

[lynn cates]

denial

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Her delay? From her daughter's? As I wrote, he stated that he thought she might have stayed over for Sunday."

Even so, that still does not explain the further delay. (By the way, if John is telling the truth about being financially wiped out, how did he pay his doss after Kate had left on Saturday? How did he eat?)

"Was he aware that they had moved?"

Yes.

"Did he know the new address? What was it?'

Possibly; possibly not. In which case, why is Kate going there anyway?

"Well, if she had given her correct name and address the police would have visited Flower and Dean St, just as they checked out the false address in Dorset St following the discovery that the murdered woman was the one they had in the Bishopsgate cell."

And John knew this? (By the way, 2 detectives went there, anyway.)

"Well, the possible denial I speak of is the one that a woman had been murdered and Kelly's missus was missing."

So he continues NOT to seek her whereabouts? No frantic search--especially as they had been discussing the WCM?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

But how did he account for her delay? Besides, the daughter had moved, as he was bloody well aware.

Her delay? From her daughter`s? As I wrote, he stated that he thought she might have stayed over for Sunday.

Was he aware that they had moved ? Did he know the new address? What was it?

Was John aware that she had given a false name?

Well, if she had given her correct name and address the police would have visited Flower and Dean St, just as they checked out the false address in Dorset St following the discovery that the murdered woman was the one they had in the Bishopsgate cell.

Denial? I rather like that word. To be sure. But we may have different ideas about what precisely was the object of that denial.

Well, the possible denial I speak of is the one that a woman had been murdered and Kelly`s missus was missing.

[Cogidubnus]

Whoops...crossed postings...sorry!

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

On which basis, poor old Liz Stride waited outside a socialist/anarchists club and didn't hear a thing...come on Lynn!

Why do I think he wanted someone to post that?



Dave

[lynn cates]

in another place

Hello Dave. I intentionally omitted Liz. I am not making a suggestion about Anarchists/Socialists. That has been examined elsewhere.

Cheers.
LC