The Seaside Home: Could Schwartz or Lawende Have Put the Ripper's Neck in a Noose?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

"He thought a clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. None was found."

Was this you?

Strange, because you just now posted:

"There was a man's clay pipe in the room"

Tsk. Who can we trust in this world?

I think you're evading the issue, which is that there is evidence that the only pipe found in the room belonged to Kelly's boyfriend.

There is no evidence to support Anderson's claim that a broken pipe was found in the fireplace.

You have had to suggest the existence of a second pipe in order to accommodate Anderson's fantasy, in addition to the clay pipe you speculate was smoked by Kosminski, and Alice MacKenzie's clay pipe.

That's a lot of pipes.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please see my replies below.

"He thought a clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. None was found."

Was this you?

Strange, because you just now posted:

"There was a man's clay pipe in the room"

Tsk. Who can we trust in this world?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

Robert Anderson ... knew more about the case than you ever will.

Whereas you just think you know things, he actually did.

Abberline testified at Kelly's inquest that a man's clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. If a doctor had picked up another pipe and smashed it in the fireplace, this fact might have been hushed up. We cannot say for certain.


All you have succeeded in doing is confirming that Anderson is, as I stated, an unreliable source.


There was a man's clay pipe in the room, and Barnett informed me that he smoked it.

(TESTIMONY OF INSPECTOR ABBERLINE)


In two cases of that terrible series there were distinct clues destroyed - wiped out absolutely - clues that might very easily have secured for us proof of the identity of the assassin. In one case it was a clay pipe. Before we could get to the scene of the murder the doctor had taken it up, thrown it into the fire-place and smashed it beyond recognition.

(ANDERSON, SEPTEMBER 1908)


Another of Anderson's Fairy Tales.



In jabbering away about clay pipes and Rose Mylett (wot?), you are losing sight of the big picture which is that the head of CID named a Polish Jew as his prime suspect, because he had been identified by a witness, and the Chief Inspector of CID confirmed the identification and records that the suspect was Kosminski. That's all there is to it.

Nothing you say is ever going to change this.



Nothing you say is going to change the fact that there is not a shred of actual evidence to substantiate your claim that a Polish Jew was identified as the Whitechapel Murderer by a witness, unless you mean the identification of John Piser, who was subsequently cleared by the police.

Piser just happens to have been 'unhesitatingly identified', just like the fictional suspect in Anderson's Fairy Tale Chapter IX.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some readers may wonder why you are talking about Kosminski smoking a clay pipe at all and whether it actually matters whether I mistakenly thought Anderson was referring to Alice McKenzie's pipe.

There is no evidence that Kosminski smoked at all, let alone that he smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.

There is, however, considerable evidence of Anderson's confusion about what happened.

He confused the political party allegiances of senior politicians.

He was called a fantasist by Winston Churchill.

He thought he had discussed the murders with a former Home Secretary, even though he had been Home Secretary only before the murders happened.

He claimed that the police deduced that the Whitechapel Murderer did not live alone.
That is not true.

He claimed further that the police therefore deduced that the murderer had to be Jewish.
That is not true, either.

He insisted that Rose Mylett died of natural causes, even though he knew that two post-mortems established the cause of her death as strangulation.

He thought a clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. None was found.

He claimed that Kosminski was already permanently incarcerated in an asylum at a time when he, Anderson, was trying to put him on trial for murder.

It is obvious that Anderson is an entirely unreliable source of information about what really happened.

Robert Anderson was the head of the CID at Scotland Yard, which meant he was the individual to whom all police reports filed at Scotland Yard about the Whitechapel murders investigation were addressed, including those which have been lost to us. He thus knew more about the case than you ever will.

Whereas you just think you know things, he actually did.

You say that no clay pipe was found in Kelly's room but that's not actually true. Abberline testified at Kelly's inquest that a man's clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. If a doctor had picked up another pipe and smashed it in the fireplace, this fact might have been hushed up. We cannot say for certain.

Anyway, I've already told you that Anderson wasn't speaking of Kosminski in 1908. He was giving feeble excuses for why he hadn't found the proof to convict JTR. The only reason we're even discussing clay pipes was because of your absurd and unfounded suggestion that Kosminski couldn't possibly have smoked one.

In jabbering away about clay pipes and Rose Mylett (wot?), you are losing sight of the big picture which is that the head of CID named a Polish Jew as his prime suspect, because he had been identified by a witness, and the Chief Inspector of CID confirmed the identification and records that the suspect was Kosminski. That's all there is to it.

Nothing you say is ever going to change this.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I'm pretty sure that Alice McKenzie's clay pipe was never thrown into the fireplace by the doctor, which is what Anderson says of that pipe, so your assumption that he was talking about her pipe would seem to be misplaced (especially as in your #666 you referred to "supposed destruction of evidence at Dorset Street" showing that you are now arguing in pure bad faith).

But thank you for confirming that you have literally no idea whether Kosminski could have penned the writing on the wall nor whether he smoked a distinctive clay pipe. That's precisely why I described your points in #664 and #665 as utterly ridiculous.

Some readers may wonder why you are talking about Kosminski smoking a clay pipe at all and whether it actually matters whether I mistakenly thought Anderson was referring to Alice McKenzie's pipe.

There is no evidence that Kosminski smoked at all, let alone that he smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.

There is, however, considerable evidence of Anderson's confusion about what happened.

He confused the political party allegiances of senior politicians.

He was called a fantasist by Winston Churchill.

He thought he had discussed the murders with a former Home Secretary, even though he had been Home Secretary only before the murders happened.

He claimed that the police deduced that the Whitechapel Murderer did not live alone.
That is not true.

He claimed further that the police therefore deduced that the murderer had to be Jewish.
That is not true, either.

He insisted that Rose Mylett died of natural causes, even though he knew that two post-mortems established the cause of her death as strangulation.

He thought a clay pipe was found in Kelly's room. None was found.

He claimed that Kosminski was already permanently incarcerated in an asylum at a time when he, Anderson, was trying to put him on trial for murder.

It is obvious that Anderson is an entirely unreliable source of information about what really happened.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please see my replies below.

I'm pretty sure that Alice McKenzie's clay pipe was never thrown into the fireplace by the doctor, which is what Anderson says of that pipe, so your assumption that he was talking about her pipe would seem to be misplaced (especially as in your #666 you referred to "supposed destruction of evidence at Dorset Street" showing that you are now arguing in pure bad faith).

But thank you for confirming that you have literally no idea whether Kosminski could have penned the writing on the wall nor whether he smoked a distinctive clay pipe. That's precisely why I described your points in #664 and #665 as utterly ridiculous.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Please see my replies below.

Ignore - posted on the wrong thread.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

No. You must be imagining things.

What I'm saying is that he was a Polish Jew who could quite easily have been able to write a limited amount of English in a competent manner, like many Polish Jews could in England in the 1880s, and that, at the same time, as a foreigner, he might easily have mistakenly spelt the word "Jews" as "Juwes", or he might have done so deliberately.


Can you cite the case of a Jewish person living in England who knew English well enough to spell words such as 'blamed' and 'nothing' correctly, yet was unable to spell the name of his own people?

It is obvious that the message was written by a gentile.



Do you have any idea how competent Kosminski was in writing English?


No.

And neither do you, which means you cannot say that he was able to spell words such as 'blamed' and 'nothing' correctly.

And if he could not, then he could not have written the message.

According to the report we have, nearly 15 months after the graffito was written in Goulston Street, Kosminski said 'I goes' instead of 'I go'.

How competent would you call that?



He might also have smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe. Do you have any idea whether he did or did not do so?


The clay pipe was reportedly smoked by Alice McKenzie, not Kosminski.

Next, I suppose you will be suggesting that she spoke Yiddish and her real name was McKosminski.



All the rest seems to have come from your imagination, having nothing to do with what Anderson said in 1908.


As you well know, 'all the rest' comes from posters on this forum, playing the same game as you are playing, making fanciful suggestions about Kosminski, on the ground that they cannot be disproved, even though they are completely unsupported by the evidence we have and even contradicted by it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Kosminski could have been a fair-haired, drunk, anti-Semitic Polish Jew, who had the appearance of a sailor, whose spelling of English words was perfect, but who was unable to spell the word Jew correctly, and who smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe?

Is that what you are saying?

No. You must be imagining things.

What I'm saying is that he was a Polish Jew who could quite easily have been able to write a limited amount of English in a competent manner, like many Polish Jews could in England in the 1880s, and that, at the same time, as a foreigner, he might easily have mistakenly spelt the word "Jews" as "Juwes", or he might have done so deliberately. Do you have any idea how competent Kosminski was in writing English?

He might also have smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe. Do you have any idea whether he did or did not do so?

All the rest seems to have come from your imagination, having nothing to do with what Anderson said in 1908.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Yes. For the reasons I already explained

Kosminski could have been a fair-haired, drunk, anti-Semitic Polish Jew, who had the appearance of a sailor, whose spelling of English words was perfect, but who was unable to spell the word Jew correctly, and who smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe?

Is that what you are saying?

[Herlock Sholmes]

MY points are utterly ridiculous??

.

Yes. For the reasons I already explained

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Your points are utterly ridiculous anyway. Kosminski could easily have been unable to spell the word "Jews" in English, or he could simply have been pretending not to be able to spell it in order to throw attention off himself (while giving himself away with his handwriting), and could, for all we know, have smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.

MY points are utterly ridiculous??

You are using the well-worn tactic of turning the evidence into the opposite of what it suggests, by means of unwarranted speculation.

Kosminski could have been a fair-haired, drunk, anti-Semitic Polish Jew, who had the appearance of a sailor, whose spelling of English words was perfect, but who was unable to spell the word Jew correctly, and who smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.

That is obviously not what the evidence suggests.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Your points are utterly ridiculous anyway. Kosminski could easily have been unable to spell the word "Jews" in English, or he could simply have been pretending not to be able to spell it in order to throw attention off himself (while giving himself away with his handwriting), and could, for all we know, have smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.

MY points are utterly ridiculous??

You are using the well-worn tactic of turning the evidence into the opposite of what it suggests, by means of unwarranted speculation.

Kosminski could have been a fair-haired, drunk, anti-Semitic Polish Jew, who had the appearance of a sailor, whose spelling of English words was perfect, but who was unable to spell the word Jew correctly.

That is obviously not what the evidence suggests.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think you're entirely missing the point.

If Anderson thought that the destruction of evidence in Goulston Street and supposed destruction of evidence in Dorset Street had wrecked the chances of solving the case, then that means the murderer couldn't spell the word Jews and smoked a clay pipe.

That rules out Kosminski.

Except that, as I already explained to you, he was putting this supposed destruction of evidence forward as an EXCUSE for not securing the proof to convict Jack the Ripper.

Your points are utterly ridiculous anyway. Kosminski could easily have been unable to spell the word "Jews" in English, or he could simply have been pretending not to be able to spell it in order to throw attention off himself (while giving himself away with his handwriting), and could, for all we know, have smoked a distinctive type of clay pipe.
,
But to focus on those distractions is to entirely miss the point (which you've now done twice in a row) which is that Anderson's 1908 article wasn't about Kosminski. It was him moaning about the destruction of clues by others, thereby explaining to the public why Scotland Yard CID under his leadership had not arrested and convicted Jack the Ripper.

Whether he genuinely thought he was impeded by that we'll never know but to repeat the point which you've simply ignored, he was consistent over many years from 1895 in expressing his belief that JTR had been committed to a lunatic asylum. That's the fact that you seem unable to acknowledge or confront.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I think you're entirely missing the point.

If Anderson thought that the destruction of evidence in Goulston Street and supposed destruction of evidence in Dorset Street had wrecked the chances of solving the case, then that means the murderer couldn't spell the word Jews and smoked a clay pipe.

That rules out Kosminski.