What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[curious4]

Hop-picking

Hello Lynn,

Yes, it was a particularly bad year for hops (at least in Kent) that year, but what I meant was that in a good or normal year they could make enough to live fairly well, especially if Kate was hawking and cleaning during the winter months. I wonder if she really was hoping for the reward. (Out on very thin ice there, I know.) Perhaps that was the reason she didn't try straight away to get some cleaning work. Mind you, if her children thought of her as a scrounger, perhaps she didn't always do so well.

Best wishes,
Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

no luck

Hello Gwyneth.

Of course, John claimed they had no luck picking hops. And most of London was sent home near the beginning of September, the Kent people being sufficient for the picking.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

street walkers

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I had to research the press archives and found specific charges for those found sleeping on the streets."

I can readily believe that. That prompts me to think that those who claimed to walk the streets really did so.

Cheers.
LC

[Barnaby]

People who have been alcoholics for a long time can appear sober when they still have a measurable BAC. What's more, someone who is a genuine alcohol addict can get very ill if forced to go through sudden withdrawal. That's what the DTs are. People can die during a seizure when they have the DTs.

If Eddowes was a genuine addict, having access to alcohol was more important to her than having a bed for the night. The shakes and the vomiting when a person starts going into withdrawal are really awful. I've never experienced them, but I've seen them.

I don't know that she was an alcoholic, but I've seen her described that way. I'm not really sure what the definition of alcoholic is anymore, though. It used to be reserved for addicts who would go into physical withdrawal, but lately, it seems to be applied to anyone who tends to act like an ******* when he drinks, or anyone who drinks to escape real (as opposed to imagined, or blown out of proportion) problems in his or her life, whether or not the person is actually addicted. Anyway, it sounds like Eddowes got drunk pretty frequently, but I've never heard about her having the DTs.

One can be an alcoholic without being physically dependent on the drug. The DSM-IV lists criteria for both substance dependence disorder and substance abuse disorder. Substance abuse disorder has nothing to do with physical dependence but rather focuses on the negative consequences of drinking (e.g., in hazardous places, legal implications, etc.). Substance dependence disorder may - but not necessarily - involve physical dependence. To complicate (or simplify depending on your POV) matters, the new DSM-V lists simply an alcohol abuse disorder with subcategories of mild, moderate, and severe. I'm assuming that severe is the category in which DT's would be experienced upon cessation of use.

You are quite correct in that alcohol withdrawal can kill. But assuming Eddowes was quite blitzed when arrested, even if she was dependent she wasn't incarcerated long enough to experience severe symptoms associated with alcohol withdrawal

[C. F. Leon]

And all she had to do was give her correct name & address, she would be deemed cognisant?

(PC Hut) "I was directed by Sergeant Byfield to see if any of the prisoners were fit to be discharged. I found the deceased sober, and after she had given her name and address, she was allowed to leave."

How she made it through the door may have been of secondary concern.

I think that the point was could she answer a question/-s coherently? And by the way, let's make it a question that gives US some useful information.

[curious4]

Kelly

What if Eddowes was an occasional solicitor and upon returning from a failed hopping excursion she was how you say sent out to get money? Hence the drink. Kelly gave her money for drink so it would be easier to deal with. She gets drunk and winds up in jail. Worried about being late and broke she goes on the hunt so she isn't empty-handed upon seeing Kelly again. Something I find funny is that everyone assumes Kidney was abussive but Kelly is a gentle creature. I wonder if it isn't maybe the other way around? Just prattling on.

Hello again Watson,

I think you are being a little hard on Kelly. They seem to have been fond of each other. Kelly by all accounts stood barefoot in the street outside while Kate pawned his new boots, not Kate's new jacket (both bought with the little money they had earned hop-picking). The landlord of the lodging house recalls them both being in by nine(ish) whenever they stayed there and is quite clear that as far as he knew Kate never went with any man apart from Kelly.

Kate was said to have earned her living during the winter by hawking and cleaning and in the summer by fruit-picking and hopping. I grew up in Kent, and to this day it is possible to earn a good wage by fruit-picking (not sure about hopping, though).

I think there is a good case to be made for Kate being the only victim who didn't prostitute herself.

All good wishes,
C4

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"But don't you recall John Kelly saying the same thing?"

I do indeed. Almost used him as an example.

"It was a euphemism. . ."

You think so? I don't. If you were caught loitering, I presume the constable would apply the truncheon to your pate.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Ah, no, I had to research the press archives and found specific charges for those found sleeping on the streets.

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times"... depending whether you had a cot for the night

[lynn cates]

euphemism?

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"But don't you recall John Kelly saying the same thing?"

I do indeed. Almost used him as an example.

"It was a euphemism. . ."

You think so? I don't. If you were caught loitering, I presume the constable would apply the truncheon to your pate.

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

I think I need to revise my choices...because I would just love to know who Mrs Long really saw.

Cheers all

Jacob Isenschmidt and Dolly The Sheep

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Isn't everyone eager to get out of lock-up?"

I should think not. Hutch claimed that, given the Victoria Home was closed, he would walk the street all night.

Hi Lynn.

But don't you recall John Kelly saying the same thing?
It was a euphemism, admitting to sleeping on the streets, in doorways, or under stairs, was an offense.

Rather than admit to committing an offense by being forced to sleep on the streets, everyone merely say's they walk about all night.

[Michael W Richards]

I think I need to revise my choices...because I would just love to know who Mrs Long really saw.

Cheers all

[DVV]

Indeed, Lynn.

He looked for a bobby, intending to kick him in the balls, but found none.

Wait. Not sure it didn't happen on Sunday in Petticoat Lane.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

gaol

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Isn't everyone eager to get out of lock-up?"

I should think not. Hutch claimed that, given the Victoria Home was closed, he would walk the street all night. I daresay gaol would have been a bit more inviting.

Cheers.
LC

[Sally]

Some I'd like to know the answers to:

Who was Mary Kelly?

Who was Louisa Barnett?

Was Morris Lewis related to Sarah Lewis?

Where was Barnett from 1888 - 1898 - Did he go to Ireland?

How tall was Joseph Fleming?

(Actually not so much the last one; it just seemed topical)

There are more - those are the first I thought of.

[Wickerman]

Seriously, it seems that Kate was quite eager to get out AND on time.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Isn't everyone eager to get out of lock-up?