What 5 Questions Would You Like Answered?

[C. F. Leon]

Hi Leon

"But apparently the usual method for this style of prostitution was NOT penetration, but the woman using her thighs to get the guy off."

The incidence of sexual disease among prostitutes and their clients tell a different story though.

And what if the customer wanted penetration? Do you think the prostitute would have say in the matter? I'm sure full sex took place, as far as prostitution was concerned in the LVP.

Forget profiling, have a go at common sense.

Regards

Observer

I did say apparently- I was not stating as established fact. I have seen in two different sources (Rumbelow and, I believe, Sugden- although I'm willing to be corrected if i mis-remember a source) mention that these sort of whores did use their thighs (also that rear-entry was preferred), and I believe that Ally mentions this earlier in this thread. Also, note my use of "usual", not "exclusively". Certainly if the customer preferred/demanded penetration,"give the customer what he wants, Deary". But most guys were plastered and just wanted to get get off. And the cost was probably the same. I don't think prostitutes at this low level had some sort of menu of rates for various services, although it may be possible. Many of the encounters were probably rougher and less enjoyable than the woman really would have preferred- bordering upon the MODERN definition of 'rape'. (Yes, Prostitutes can be raped.)

Someone who knows more about LVP prositution and general sex practices would have to join in. I am not an expert, and I do not pretend to be.

And profiling DOES work- under other names it is the BASIS for logical thinking and the scientific method. Patterns DO exist and can be established and trends be predicted on the information.

[C. F. Leon]

I'm not sure we would know the motive if we knew his name.
I mean : we will still be speculating, and comparing what he did to known and (more or less) similar modern serial killers.

IF we just had the name ONLY, such as 'William Long', probably not. But if we knew that it was Druitt or Kosminski, to use a couple of examples, we already speculate about THEIR motives. We would be more certain and it would no longer just be speculation, but it would be backed up by actual facts.

[Beowulf]

Wouldn't the other consideration for sexual incidence be the time factor? The murders took place in very short time frames, like 15 min, from how I remember it.

*Ahem: Not much time left for mayhem and murder, btw: a great name for a Ripper book

New question No. 5. How satisfied was Jack?

[C. F. Leon]

Wouldn't the other consideration for sexual incidence be the time factor? The murders took place in very short time frames, like 15 min, from how I remember it.

*Ahem: Not much time left for mayhem and murder, btw: a great name for a Ripper book

New question No. 5. How satisfied was Jack?

The common term is "wham, bam, thank you Ma'm" (I think the phrase is of more modern origin, though! But it's the same idea.) These were usually not loving all evenings of foreplay with soft music and make the girl cum at least 3 times before you do the deed- 15 minutes WAS foreplay!

How satisfied Jack was is probably the crux of the matter- probably not very much with the actual sex, and the killings/mutilations is what got him REALLY off. I'm off course theorizing, but it is a reasonable and likely theory based on other sexual killers.

[Observer]

I did say apparently- I was not stating as established fact. I have seen in two different sources (Rumbelow and, I believe, Sugden- although I'm willing to be corrected if i mis-remember a source) mention that these sort of whores did use their thighs (also that rear-entry was preferred), and I believe that Ally mentions this earlier in this thread. Also, note my use of "usual", not "exclusively". Certainly if the customer preferred/demanded penetration,"give the customer what he wants, Deary". But most guys were plastered and just wanted to get get off. And the cost was probably the same. I don't think prostitutes at this low level had some sort of menu of rates for various services, although it may be possible. Many of the encounters were probably rougher and less enjoyable than the woman really would have preferred- bordering upon the MODERN definition of 'rape'. (Yes, Prostitutes can be raped.)

Someone who knows more about LVP prositution and general sex practices would have to join in. I am not an expert, and I do not pretend to be.

I'm no expert either in these matters. However, I know full well that prostitutes can indeed be raped, and I'd bet the anus was also checked out by the doctors for signs of penetration. Plastered men tend not to rise to the occasion so to speak, so it's wise perhaps to leave them out of the equation. The thing is none of the canonical five showed signs of penetration, and there are documented cases of serial murder where the act of murder, and mutilation, is sufficient for the perpetrator to "get off". It's not unreasonable to speculate that JTR belonged to this group of killers.

Regards

Observer

[DVV]

IF we just had the name ONLY, such as 'William Long', probably not. But if we knew that it was Druitt or Kosminski, to use a couple of examples, we already speculate about THEIR motives. We would be more certain and it would no longer just be specultion, but it would be backed up by actual facts.

As you say, we already speculate about their motives.

Take an example : the trophies.
We don't know how he used them.
And wouldn't know more if we were certain it was Druitt, Fleming or James Kelly.
We will be still speculating.

It may even work the other round : the ripper would tell us more about Druitt or Kelly. More than Druitt or Kelly would tell us about the ripper, I mean.

[Observer]

"And profiling DOES work- under other names it is the BASIS for logical thinking and the scientific method. Patterns DO exist and can be established and trends be predicted on the information"

Common sense works much more effectively

[DVV]

The thing is none of the canonical five showed signs of penetration, and there are documented cases of serial murder where the act of murder, and mutilation, is sufficient for the perpetrator to "get off". It's not unreasonable to speculate that JTR belonged to this group of killers.

Observer

Is that people like Shawcross that you're thinking about, Obs ?

[DVV]

Criminal Minds

"And profiling DOES work- under other names it is the BASIS for logical thinking and the scientific method. Patterns DO exist and can be established and trends be predicted on the information"

Common sense works much more effectively

Since Mandy Patinkin's departure, I tend to agree.

[Mr Lucky]

The five questions I would like answered;-

1) Where was "Church-row" ?
2) Was Church-row on PC Mizen beat ?
3) The women at the mortuary on Friday afternoon, 31 August 1888, who first told the world about Leather Apron - a man who lures women into houses and robs them - who were they referring to ?
4) Who was the suspect who lived near Buck's-row, as mentioned in the Echo 20 September 1888 ?
5) When Robert Paul first examined Nichols, did he detect faint movement because she was unconscious but still alive, or was it a sign 'that she was only just dead' ?

[Observer]

Is that people like Shawcross that you're thinking about, Obs ?

Hi David

Arthur Shawcross is an example, although before he embarked on his second series of mayhem, he had commited rape.

Sutcilffe is a prime example, although it seems masturbation played a big part in his particular "jolly".

Regards

Observer

[Observer]

Since Mandy Patinkin's departure, I tend to agree.

Isn't he an actor?

Although there are plenty in here who play Sherlock Holmes.

And some play Clouseau !!!

Regards

Observer

[DVV]

Isn't he an actor?

An excellent one.

And some play Clouseau !!!

Wasn't he a Frenchie ?

Cheers

[Observer]

Indeed. One of those rare detectives who although incompetent always get their man. So perhaps there's hope for Lynch Eight et al after all. Hahahahaha

Regards

Observer

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Lynn,

I'm figuring you aren't familiar with prostitutes and their transactions.

They take the money up front and pocket it. The rifling is a sign of retrieval.

Monty

This rifling you keep talking about where is the evidence to show that is what took place.