A Whip and a Prod

[JeffHamm]

Jeff,

I believe it was Abberline who connected the call out with anti Semitic overtures, but rather than what you suggest above, it was anti Jew sentiments directed at Schwartz, or in a mocking fashion to a compatriot across the street..which would make him a like minded person, that were believed to be the nature of "Lipski". One needs only to see the reaction to the GSG to know the Police were very aware how volatile an anti Jew neighborhood could be.

Israels story in the way he told it was to accomplish 2 things, a strong likelihood that the murderer was never on club property that night, and that he was also a jew hater. Context...in September the investigation took 2 segments of the population and fixated on them...medically trained people, and local Jewish Immigrants. This happened weeks into that kind of door to door searching. Not only did the club want to shuffle off suspicions, it wanted to downplay any idea that Jews were involved.

Israel in his story felt personally threatened, that's not going to be the case with your suggested interpretation. A derogatory anti-Semitic call from one co-conspirator is suggesting we have a "Lipski" here. A proper name associated with someone who had a 6 month pregnant woman drink acid.

I can see your argument that Israel's story suggests the murderer was not on club property, given he says he followed him down the street. However, his statement implies "pipeman's name" might have been Lipski - and this was certainly the view of home office at the time, and the police did search for all families with that name in the area. It was also the meaning of Schwartz's original statement, reflecting what Schwartz intended to convey. Abberline's reappraisal of Schwartz's intended meaning to the one now most commonly held (that Lipski was shouted at Schwartz not at Pipeman, and was an insult) is neither here nor there with regards to whether or not Schwartz's statement is consistent with a club conspiracy to direct attention away from a Jewish perpetrator. What Schwartz's statement as he gave it accomplishes is to implicate a Jewish offender, directly against the goal of the hypothesized conspiracy. Focusing on Abberline's reinterpretation of Schwartz's statement is no longer looking at what Schwartz had originally said, and it is what Schwartz originally said that would reflect the goals of said conspiracy. Abberline's reinterpretation would fit the club conspiracy though, as one could argue that he was deflecting evidence against a Jewish offender to make it appear less incriminating - but I think adding Abberline to the conspiracy would be even harder to swallow. As it is, though, Schwartz, given his original statement and it's intended meaning by him, cannot be part of the conspiracy. His testimony, as originally given, runs directly counter to its goals.

- Jeff

[DJA]

So,what are we doing on Monday?

[DJA]

Bundy,

You might have something there.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Pipe man

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Broad shouldered man

He looks like he's about to extol the virtues of the "smooth, mild flavour of Lucky Strikes".

[DJA]

Modern equivalent.

[DJA]

Yep.

That is precisely what I mean.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Broad shouldered man

[DJA]

Given that Packer had resided at 25 Fairclough Street two doors from the pub, before moving around the corner to 44 Berner Street,right next to the public house ...... no!

How many people do you know that would be described as broad shouldered,and what do they do to obtain that physique?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

This snippet from the description of Packer's statement is worth focusing on:

At last the couple moved from their position and Packer saw them cross the road again and come over to the club, standing for a moment in front of it as though listening to the music inside. Then he lost sight of them. It was then 10 or 15 minutes past 12 o’clock, Packer, who was about to close his shop, noting the time by the fact that the public-houses had been closed.

So where had they gone when he lost sight of them?

This dissertation suggests that the ~12:12 time at this which occurs, could have actually been much earlier (Packer mistook the departures at the end of the club meeting, for the closing of the pubs at around midnight).
Stride seems to have spent a lot of time outside the club, before her murder.
It's interesting when we consider her standing with the man, outside the club, possibly before midnight - at least an hour before her death!
The we have...

Schwartz > Interpreter > Abberline > Swanson: He tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round & threw her down on the footway & the woman screamed three times, but not very loudly.

The area of the lane in which Stride was found, was very dark.
Does "He tried to pull the woman into the street" suggest Stride really wanted to stay in the darkness, with a man who wanted to throw her around?
Surely not! So how about:

Prior to her death, Liz Stride had been inside the club, and was attempting to reenter it when she was murdered

So what about the issue of Stride's matted and muddied hair?
From the above dissertation:

Dr Blackwell: The clothes were not wet with rain.

William Marshall: While I was standing at my door, from half-past eleven to twelve, there was no rain at all.

James Brown: Was it raining at the time? - No. I went on.

PC Smith: It rained very little after eleven o'clock.

Her hair seems to have had plenty of time to dry out, and where she lay would have been no more than damp.
So what explains the muddied hair?
Was someone(s) trying to make it look as though she had been laying where she were found, longer than she had been?

[DJA]

Swanson's report to the Home Office gives Schwartz' address as 22 Ellen St, and he was moving to Backchurch Lane. It's this that makes his flight to Pinchin St arches unusual as he had to run past Ellen St and, if you check on a map, it's not direct from Berner to the railway arches, adding another layer of mystery to his claim.

Well spotted.
Swanson had Schwartz living at 22 Helen Street,Backchurch Lane.
Schwartz's description of the man assaulting Stride as ~ 30 and broad shouldered.

Apart from a moustache,the description is very close to Matthew Packer's.

The two men who had good views of BS man were excluded from the Inquest.

Packer was harassed for his information which may explain the changes he made.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Dear Dave
I keep on reading that posters have caught me out but they wont fix me just yet.
I have laughed when they sound so clever and talk about being on the right track.
That joke about being defective gave me real fits. I am down on posters and I shant quit
ripping into them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last thread was. I gave the lamers
no choice but to squeal. How can they match me now. I love my writing and want to start again.
You will soon hear from me with my funny little word games. I saved some of the proper stuff in
my writing pad but it got covered over in ginger beer and went thick like glue and I cant use it.
Seeing red is fit enough I hope ha. ha. The next thread I do I shall knock the chips off those
lamers shoulders and take them to the cleaners just for jolly wouldn't you. Keep this letter back
till I do a bit more writing, then give it out straight. My mind's so good and sharp I want to
get to work right away if I get a chance. Good Luck.
yours truly
The Down Under Ripper
Dont mind me giving the trade name

Wasnt good enough to post this before I got all the sticky stuff off my hands curse it.
No luck yet. They say I'm a drinker now. ha ha

Who let an enterprising journalist in here? Obviously trying to drum up excitement since it's been non controversial for a few weeks now.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Swanson's report to the Home Office gives Schwartz' address as 22 Ellen St, and he was moving to Backchurch Lane. It's this that makes his flight to Pinchin St arches unusual as he had to run past Ellen St and, if you check on a map, it's not direct from Berner to the railway arches, adding another layer of mystery to his claim.

[Michael W Richards]

Can someone refresh my memory... Why was Israel on Berner St. that night? Didn't he recently move to or away from that neighborhood?

After years of investigations no-one has discovered where Israel moved from that day. His story was that he was going by his former residence....?...to see if his wife had completed the move to Brick Lane that day. If he is moving from a Berner Street address and is not on a census, I have a guess that he was living in one of the cottages inside the passageway, where record keeping for tenants may have been looser. He knew Wess.

The very fact that he places himself just outside the club where a meeting took place that night, that he is an Immigrant Jew, and that he is friends with Wess should be enough to cause anyone pause, when his story is so beneficial for the club.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Defective more like it

Congratulations, nonetheless!

Dear Dave
I keep on reading that posters have caught me out but they wont fix me just yet.
I have laughed when they sound so clever and talk about being on the right track.
That joke about being defective gave me real fits. I am down on posters and I shant quit
ripping into them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last thread was. I gave the lamers
no choice but to squeal. How can they match me now. I love my writing and want to start again.
You will soon hear from me with my funny little word games. I saved some of the proper stuff in
my writing pad but it got covered over in ginger beer and went thick like glue and I cant use it.
Seeing red is fit enough I hope ha. ha. The next thread I do I shall knock the chips off those
lamers shoulders and take them to the cleaners just for jolly wouldn't you. Keep this letter back
till I do a bit more writing, then give it out straight. My mind's so good and sharp I want to
get to work right away if I get a chance. Good Luck.
yours truly
The Down Under Ripper
Dont mind me giving the trade name

Wasnt good enough to post this before I got all the sticky stuff off my hands curse it.
No luck yet. They say I'm a drinker now. ha ha