New Atheist Billboards in California:"I Believe in Humanity, Not god"

[Errata]

Sorry, that's not in the Bible. Therefore, that's pure speculation.
You would think that god or Jesus would forsee the problem with the master plan himself and put forth the solution in his treatise on salvation. Of course Jesus also thought he was coming back in a few decades, so maybe he didn't plan to save the whole world regardless and really was a dick condemning everyone on the planet not in his small pocket to everlasting damnation. Or maybe he was just a really, really bad planner.

Well the omniscient, omnipresent all merciful god is one theory. It sure gets a lot of play. On the other hand god could be my Uncle Mark who is so out of touch that he apologizes profusely to doors when he runs into them without even attempting to open them. Last time I saw him he asked the door if it needed to sit down.

They say that great power comes with great responsibility, but that's not true at all. It should... but it often doesn't. People think that a god should be everything but thats really a modern notion. The Greek Pantheon were gods in that they were immortal, but they were characterized as shallow ill tempered humans who pack a hell of a punch. You didn't pray to Zeus. You bribed him to leave you alone. And the Norse, Celtic, Babylonian, etc. gods are the same way. And that was the running theory on godhood until Christianity. Judaism was a little different, but it wasn't about love and benevolence. It was an alliance. So this modern idea of a god who is everything to all people is pretty new.

So in essence, yeah. God could have the foresight of a lemming.

[Tom_Wescott]

Biology is a science and, as such, it advances by means of scholarship and objective research. Dawkins, as a leading biologist, is well-practiced in both capacities.
True, but some have got closer than others. One might compare Ptolemy of Alexandria and Johannes Kepler and their theories of planetary motion; or Newton and Einstein on gravity. I'm sure nobody would criticise Ptolemy or Newton, both brilliant men, for somehow "failing to find the answer".

I saw Sam on TV last night for the first time. He talks cool.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

He's a biologist.

Biology is a science and, as such, it advances by means of scholarship and objective research. Dawkins, as a leading biologist, is well-practiced in both capacities.

the greatest minds in history have searched for the answers and haven't found them

True, but some have got closer than others. One might compare Ptolemy of Alexandria and Johannes Kepler and their theories of planetary motion; or Newton and Einstein on gravity. I'm sure nobody would criticise Ptolemy or Newton, both brilliant men, for somehow "failing to find the answer".

[Ally]

I have never said that we fully understand the world around us. What I don't do is make generalizations like great minds have searched for "the answers" and haven't found them. The answers to what? Specificity is helpful if you actually intend to have a reasoned discussion. The greatest minds in history have found "the answers" to quite a lot of things actually, so your statement is not only puzzling, but completely inane.

For example do you know that scientists have proven that the sun is not a flaming chariot drawn across the sky by a dude in a toga? And that the earth is not in fact the center of our solar system around which everything revolves. And what makes people sick is not in fact demons that possess your body bent on doing evil but in fact little tiny microorganisms that in some cases can be successfully defended against.

The greatest minds in history have come up with quite a bit of answers actually. You seem to think that because they are still looking for answers to some questions instead of giving up and calling it voodoo, it's indicative of failure as a whole.

A very unrealistic position. Especially when you take into account the great leaps science has made in a relatively brief window of time.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Does anyone else notice the faith-based make vague, generalized and completely unsupported statements and attempt to pass that off as reasoned discourse?

Such as "the greatest minds in history have searched for the answers and haven't found them". Which is a statement so vague as to be nonsensical.

Are you sure?

First off: I'm not "faith based". I really don't care whether or not there's a God, nor whether or not Dawkins is God.

Secondly, are you remotely anywhere near a human being with a fully functioning mind? You would be the first person on the entire planet to suggest that we fully understand ourselves and the world around us.

[Ally]

Does anyone else notice the faith-based make vague, generalized and completely unsupported statements and attempt to pass that off as reasoned discourse?

Such as "the greatest minds in history have searched for the answers and haven't found them". Which is a statement so vague as to be nonsensical.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Corrections & Clarifications

"bottomless pit of shite" should have read "authoritative opinion backed by decades of scholarship and empirical research"

He's a biologist.

More to the point, the greatest minds in history have searched for the answers and haven't found them: greater minds than Dawkins.

[Sam Flynn]

he wouldn't have created Dawkins and it follows thus the untold suffering among millions of people having to listen to his bottomless pit of shite.

Corrections & Clarifications

"bottomless pit of shite" should have read "authoritative opinion backed by decades of scholarship and empirical research"

[Fleetwood Mac]

I agree with FM: it is indeed a DULL world when we look to science for all the answers.

If we had looked to God instead, just think how many of us would now be savouring the same unending joys of raging toothache - to name but one example - that our ancestors did?

Love,

Caz
X

When God said the meek shall inherit the earth, I think he was talking of a far greater proposition than tooth comfort.

And, Dawkins is a far worse affliction to bestow upon anyone, and this why there probably isn't a God: he wouldn't have created Dawkins and it follows thus the untold suffering among millions of people having to listen to his bottomless pit of shite.

Personally, I hope there is a God. I hope he's sat in a Jacuzzi full of angels and looking down laughing at Dawkins.

[Ally]

Theres a room in Hell for the righteous pagans. Actually it's the vestibule of hell, but same difference. Theoretically during the harrowing of hell Jesus redeemed the righteous pagans, so anyone currently in there came after that. Like I imagine that's where Gandhi is, in the imagining of Christianity. It's not all fire and brimstone. It's just inexpressibly dull. Which can be a hell in and of itself. It might just have been the most benign hell Virgil/Dante could come up with.

Sorry, that's not in the Bible. Therefore, that's pure speculation.
You would think that god or Jesus would forsee the problem with the master plan himself and put forth the solution in his treatise on salvation. Of course Jesus also thought he was coming back in a few decades, so maybe he didn't plan to save the whole world regardless and really was a dick condemning everyone on the planet not in his small pocket to everlasting damnation. Or maybe he was just a really, really bad planner.

[Sam Flynn]

I thought it was nice that at some point they dealt with the theoretically tormented pagan souls. Religions don't always think of these things. But somewhere along the line some Catholic recognized the unfairness of the situation and took care of them. Either through doctrine or though deed...

... or, more likely, through making it up. Unless said Catholic actually went to Hell, found the vestibule full of righteous pagans, and filed a report in some ecclesiastical travel guide on his return.

[Errata]

During those centuries and centuries, millions and millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing about Jesus Christ.

So what precisely do you think happened to their souls? I have never once gotten an answer to that. It's all "I trust in god and his plan". Okay, but that didn't answer my question. What do you think happened to their souls? *crickets*

Theres a room in Hell for the righteous pagans. Actually it's the vestibule of hell, but same difference. Theoretically during the harrowing of hell Jesus redeemed the righteous pagans, so anyone currently in there came after that. Like I imagine that's where Gandhi is, in the imagining of Christianity. It's not all fire and brimstone. It's just inexpressibly dull. Which can be a hell in and of itself. It might just have been the most benign hell Virgil/Dante could come up with.

My priest friend gave me the shakedown of the whole theory at some point. I confess I don't remember all the particulars. Just that bit. But I thought it was nice that at some point they dealt with the theoretically tormented pagan souls. Religions don't always think of these things. But somewhere along the line some Catholic recognized the unfairness of the situation and took care of them. Either through doctrine or though deed. Since I can't swear Jesus didn't redeem the righteous pagans and all. It's like they had their own little Innocence Project. And that's nice. Redeeming pagans in truth or in story is really a nice little Mitzvah. They didn't have to care about good men burning in hell. Many don't.

[Sam Flynn]

patients hooked up to a certain machine began to die suddenly at exactly the same time each day. When doctors were at the scene to investigate, they saw the cleaning lady arrive and unplug the machine so she could plug in the vacuum cleaner.

As a manner of dying, this truly sucks.

She was working in mysterious ways, God's wonders to perform.

That'd be Jehoova.

[Ally]

I have to say when we had the above discussion, my good friend after really thinking about it for a while (and she really does think about everything we discuss) burst out with " I don't know! I don't CARE what happened to those people!!" and then I responded with "Well see that's the difference. I am not a Christian so I care about what happens to people". And then we both burst out laughing hysterically at that crazy idea and drank another pitcher of margaritas.

[Ally]

If there are any devout Christians who believe that Christ is the only redeemer, I would like to throw this question out that I've asked every Christian who has ever entered into religious debate with me.

If you truly believe that Christ and Christianity is the sole and only path to eternal salvation, then why did Jesus Christ choose to come to earth at a time when the fastest means of spreading the word was by foot or donkey.

Going by the numbers it took (rounding to the nearest 100 here) 1000 years for Christian missionaries to enter Norway/Denmark/Sweden. 1500 years for Christian missionaries to even set foot in North and South America.

During those centuries and centuries, millions and millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing about Jesus Christ.

So what precisely do you think happened to their souls? I have never once gotten an answer to that. It's all "I trust in god and his plan". Okay, but that didn't answer my question. What do you think happened to their souls? *crickets*