New Atheist Billboards in California:"I Believe in Humanity, Not god"

[Ally]

Aye, Ally, compared with you I'm the heir to the throne of Gandhi and associated peace advocates.

And yet I've managed to post several replies to you without insulting you at all, and you can't claim the same. So I would possibly get off that high horse if I were you before you fall and it kicks you in the head.

And, you're misrepresenting what I actually said: "science doesn't have all of the answers", which is an entirely different proposition and one that would be supported by scientists.

No you are misrepresenting what you actually said. You stated that it would be a DULL world to look to science for all the answers, which is your opinion and only your opinion and a fairly judgmental opinion at that. Science is an ongoing process and of course scientists will admit they don't have the answers, that's what they are out there looking for. But it is purely your insulting opinion that the work of scientists and those who look to them makes for a dull world.

[caz]

Dullsville

I agree with FM: it is indeed a DULL world when we look to science for all the answers.

If we had looked to God instead, just think how many of us would now be savouring the same unending joys of raging toothache - to name but one example - that our ancestors did?

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

LOL Caz, I had much the same thought but I had planned for the eventuality of FM having a reasoned response (I know, it is to laugh) where I would propose we both infect ourselves with TB and he goes to the church and prays for an answer and I'll go to the doctor and we'll see who gets a better result. True, his experience will no doubt be more exciting than mine, but I like my eventual answer/outcome a lot better.

[caz]

Hi Ally,

Well of course, the answer is that God created everything, so he created TB and also the doctors who can now prevent and treat it.

Being all-powerful, the almighty - sorry, the Almighty (mustn't be disrespectful to Tom, even while he's away from the boards watching internet porn and cranking one out) - left plenty of time between the two, so thankfully life was never dull for my grandfather, coughing his lungs up and dying from consumption before I was born.

Love,

Caz
X

[Ally]

Ooh thank you Caz, Because that's what I thought the response would be. To which I would of course reply, well then by that logic, god also created the abortion procedure and the medical know how to do it, so clearly there can be nothing wrong with that then either.

It's always interesting when they call in "god's will" to justify doing things they want to do, and never think it all the way through. Like they hook up machines to brain damaged people and claim it's god's will if they live or die -- wouldn't the better test of that be to unhook the machines and really allow god to make the decision???

[caz]

Funny story I heard that may or may not be true. On a certain ward in a certain hospital somewhere in South Africa, patients hooked up to a certain machine began to die suddenly at exactly the same time each day. When doctors were at the scene early on the next occasion to investigate, they saw the cleaning lady arrive and unplug the machine so she could plug in the vacuum cleaner. She was working in mysterious ways, God's wonders to perform.

Wouldn't happen here in the UK with our National Health Service the way it is. Not more than once a year, anyway.

Love,

Caz
X

[louisa]

I wonder how many atheists would suddenly find God if they were up in a plane and it was about to crash?

My reasons for not believing in God is that there is so much unnecessary cruelty on this planet, even in the natural world.

[Ally]

I suspect not many. There would be some of course, because fear can make rational people do irrational things. If the test is facing your possible death without turning to god for comfort, I've passed that one, as has everyone who has ever had a major serious illness, had a car spin out of control on an icy highway, got smacked by a big wave and held under for one second longer than you thought you could hold your breath, etc. All these moments where you are faced with the possibility of your own mortality.

But if the only reason you believe in god is because you are afraid, that's not true worship anyway, and if god actually exists and he's actually so shallow that he'll boost his numbers with any fake show of professed piety, is that the sort of god you want to worship anyway?

I have a deeply, devoutly religious friend who actually believes in the Bible literally ( I know, I can't believe it either) and we've had the discussion before where if her god came down and gave me indisputable proof that he actually existed and yes, all that crap in the Bible was true, I still wouldn't worship him because he's a total dick.

I would admit he was god, if given the proof, but worship him? No, not in a million years.

[Robert]

I think that Bertrand Russell once nearly died when his plane dumped itself in a Norwegian fiord. Afterwards he was asked what had gone through his mind while he was in the icy waters. He replied : 'I remember thinking "I'm cold." '

[Ally]

If there are any devout Christians who believe that Christ is the only redeemer, I would like to throw this question out that I've asked every Christian who has ever entered into religious debate with me.

If you truly believe that Christ and Christianity is the sole and only path to eternal salvation, then why did Jesus Christ choose to come to earth at a time when the fastest means of spreading the word was by foot or donkey.

Going by the numbers it took (rounding to the nearest 100 here) 1000 years for Christian missionaries to enter Norway/Denmark/Sweden. 1500 years for Christian missionaries to even set foot in North and South America.

During those centuries and centuries, millions and millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing about Jesus Christ.

So what precisely do you think happened to their souls? I have never once gotten an answer to that. It's all "I trust in god and his plan". Okay, but that didn't answer my question. What do you think happened to their souls? *crickets*

[Ally]

I have to say when we had the above discussion, my good friend after really thinking about it for a while (and she really does think about everything we discuss) burst out with " I don't know! I don't CARE what happened to those people!!" and then I responded with "Well see that's the difference. I am not a Christian so I care about what happens to people". And then we both burst out laughing hysterically at that crazy idea and drank another pitcher of margaritas.

[Sam Flynn]

patients hooked up to a certain machine began to die suddenly at exactly the same time each day. When doctors were at the scene to investigate, they saw the cleaning lady arrive and unplug the machine so she could plug in the vacuum cleaner.

As a manner of dying, this truly sucks.

She was working in mysterious ways, God's wonders to perform.

That'd be Jehoova.

[Errata]

During those centuries and centuries, millions and millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing about Jesus Christ.

So what precisely do you think happened to their souls? I have never once gotten an answer to that. It's all "I trust in god and his plan". Okay, but that didn't answer my question. What do you think happened to their souls? *crickets*

Theres a room in Hell for the righteous pagans. Actually it's the vestibule of hell, but same difference. Theoretically during the harrowing of hell Jesus redeemed the righteous pagans, so anyone currently in there came after that. Like I imagine that's where Gandhi is, in the imagining of Christianity. It's not all fire and brimstone. It's just inexpressibly dull. Which can be a hell in and of itself. It might just have been the most benign hell Virgil/Dante could come up with.

My priest friend gave me the shakedown of the whole theory at some point. I confess I don't remember all the particulars. Just that bit. But I thought it was nice that at some point they dealt with the theoretically tormented pagan souls. Religions don't always think of these things. But somewhere along the line some Catholic recognized the unfairness of the situation and took care of them. Either through doctrine or though deed. Since I can't swear Jesus didn't redeem the righteous pagans and all. It's like they had their own little Innocence Project. And that's nice. Redeeming pagans in truth or in story is really a nice little Mitzvah. They didn't have to care about good men burning in hell. Many don't.

[Sam Flynn]

I thought it was nice that at some point they dealt with the theoretically tormented pagan souls. Religions don't always think of these things. But somewhere along the line some Catholic recognized the unfairness of the situation and took care of them. Either through doctrine or though deed...

... or, more likely, through making it up. Unless said Catholic actually went to Hell, found the vestibule full of righteous pagans, and filed a report in some ecclesiastical travel guide on his return.

[Ally]

Theres a room in Hell for the righteous pagans. Actually it's the vestibule of hell, but same difference. Theoretically during the harrowing of hell Jesus redeemed the righteous pagans, so anyone currently in there came after that. Like I imagine that's where Gandhi is, in the imagining of Christianity. It's not all fire and brimstone. It's just inexpressibly dull. Which can be a hell in and of itself. It might just have been the most benign hell Virgil/Dante could come up with.

Sorry, that's not in the Bible. Therefore, that's pure speculation.
You would think that god or Jesus would forsee the problem with the master plan himself and put forth the solution in his treatise on salvation. Of course Jesus also thought he was coming back in a few decades, so maybe he didn't plan to save the whole world regardless and really was a dick condemning everyone on the planet not in his small pocket to everlasting damnation. Or maybe he was just a really, really bad planner.