New Atheist Billboards in California:"I Believe in Humanity, Not god"

[Robert]

Hi FM

Suppose you were attacked by a thug, who put you in a wheelchair for the rest of your life. Suppose I then said to the thug, "I forgive you for what you did to FM." You'd think me crazy - and you'd be right!

[Fleetwood Mac]

It isn't possible, Limehouse. Nor can you take the sins of someone else on your own shoulders. If a court fines Mr A £100, then Mr B can pay Mr A's fine. But if a court sentences Mr A to 20 years in prison, Mr B cannot serve Mr A's sentence. The idea is preposterous.

Hello Robert,

Surely without justice there is no mercy?

Clearly anyone can be forgiven for their sins, but they must bow to justice. The two are not mutually exclusive as far as I can tell.

[Robert]

Ah, no, Tom. I prefer single Cream - double Cream is too rich.

[Tom_Wescott]

It isn't possible, Limehouse. Nor can you take the sins of someone else on your own shoulders. If a court fines Mr A £100, then Mr B can pay Mr A's fine. But if a court sentences Mr A to 20 years in prison, Mr B cannot serve Mr A's sentence. The idea is preposterous.

So I take it you don't subscribe to the theory that Dr. Cream paid a doppleganger to serve his sentence while the good doctor headed down to Whitechapel to engage in a bit of mayhem?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Robert]

It isn't possible, Limehouse. Nor can you take the sins of someone else on your own shoulders. If a court fines Mr A £100, then Mr B can pay Mr A's fine. But if a court sentences Mr A to 20 years in prison, Mr B cannot serve Mr A's sentence. The idea is preposterous.

[Limehouse]

You can't forgive someone for something they've done to other people.

Well, Robert - God can!

[Robert]

You can't forgive someone for something they've done to other people.

[Limehouse]

See, the thing with me is that this is all just too intense. It appears to me to be very hard work to follow God's instructions.

There's a lot to be said for an easy life, rather than looking over your shoulder at every turn wondering whether or not you're doing the right thing.

As said, I think there is a lot to be said for strong personal ethics, and most of these derive from Christian teaching, but for me I appreciate the odd vice and providing it's consensual and safe then where's the harm? And, in the event it means I'm going to hell then I'll accept this consequence.

I would love there to be a God and a happy ending, on the other hand. I really would. When push comes to shove, I think harmony and peace is more important than knowledge and understanding. But, in my life there is room for vice within the over-riding objective and there's no way on God's planet that I'm going to feel guilty over enjoying the pleasures of being a human being.

Well, I think what you have said is a good philosophy and I would not disagree with it. I think what is meant by 'turn from their wicked ways' is doing harm to others.

I don't have any problem with a few legal vices that are, as you say, consensual.

[Fleetwood Mac]

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

2 Chronicles 7:14

See, the thing with me is that this is all just too intense. It appears to me to be very hard work to follow God's instructions.

There's a lot to be said for an easy life, rather than looking over your shoulder at every turn wondering whether or not you're doing the right thing.

As said, I think there is a lot to be said for strong personal ethics, and most of these derive from Christian teaching, but for me I appreciate the odd vice and providing it's consensual and safe then where's the harm? And, in the event it means I'm going to hell then I'll accept this consequence.

I would love there to be a God and a happy ending, on the other hand. I really would. When push comes to shove, I think harmony and peace is more important than knowledge and understanding. But, in my life there is room for vice within the over-riding objective and there's no way on God's planet that I'm going to feel guilty over enjoying the pleasures of being a human being.

[Limehouse]

If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

2 Chronicles 7:14

[Errata]

Many do, but they would be incorrect, at least Biblically:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

It's why I was always fond of the baphomet image of god. All about the balance.

[Magpie]

And if one needs evil in order to have good, then is god capable of evil? Most Christians would say not.

Many do, but they would be incorrect, at least Biblically:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, KJV)

Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? (Lamentations 3:38)

[Robert]

Hi Jon

"Pain is an indication of something amiss"
and that's why I don't keep fit.

[Robert]

Hi FM

I agree that things are more valued if they have to be struggled for or are in some sense endangered. But then, the world didn't have to be set up like this - at least, not according to Christians, who believe in the Kingdom of Heaven.

[Wickerman]

Don't be so sure. It would be lackadaisical to think we have the answers.

Seeing as how all the questions of theology originate with us, then naturally we also have all the answers. This is after all only theology not science.

To which world do we compare ourselves with?

How many 'worlds' are there?

Epicurus is pretty easily answered.

Philosophical studies over the last two thousand years then, must have been a waste of time?

A god who makes it impossible for his creatures to do evil also makes it impossible for them to do good.

By what sequence of logic?
Epicurus expresses a flow of logic - If, And/Or = Therefore...

A much harder question for believers to answer is why God would allow apparently needless pain. When you break your arm, for instance, the disabling pain serves an obvious purpose. How, though, may one account for chronic pain that has no protective purpose?

Not sure I understand this, what protective purpose?
Pain is an indication of something amiss, whether it be a broken arm or the result of heart disease.