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The Best Ever Trump Put-Down?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by celee View Post
    He negotiated four major peace treaties in the Middle East.
    The problem in the middle East is the relationship between Isreal and Palestine. What Trump did is redefine the problem to something that is solvable by attempting to have some muslim states normalise relationships with Israel. None of these relationships have anything to do with the root of the problem. In fact, he removed the US from the list of independent arbiters in this conflict.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    Moved the American Embassy to Jerusalem recognizing the true capital of Isreal.
    He had to make a yes/no decision and in the absence of Jerusalem's settled long-term status, his decision was wrong.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    He got rid of NAFTA and replaced that horrible trade deal with the USMCA trade agreement.
    It was a renaming and fine-tuning/revisioning (which is most likely warranted for a 20-year-old agreement) exercise. I'm not too involved with the details of international trade but given Trump's record of analysing existing trade-relations, I doubt that there is much truth to his public comments. In other words, I have no indications that NAFTA was indeed "horrible".

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    He ended the Trans Atlantic Partnership.
    I don't know what you mean. Do you mean that he pissed off cultural, economical and political allies in Europe? Yes he certainly did but can you explain to me why this is a good thing? He certainly strengthened the Trans Arctic Partnership by giving Putin everything he wanted including another pass for what seems to be Russia's largest hack of US institutions to-date.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    He created the greatest economy America has ever known with record-low unemployment and record-high economic growth and even after the pandemic and shutting down the economy our current economy is better than any time during the Obama administration.
    Three things are certain. Death, Taxes and long-term economic growth. Guess who had "the greatest economy America has ever known" before Trump? It was Obama. Guess who had that title before Obama? George W. Bush. Failure to claim that tile for any one president is indeed a monumental failure of the entire presidency so the bar for this is pretty low. And btw, Trump never delivered "record-high economic growth" even though he likes to talk about it. I'm not sure what indicator you would use on this claim but I'm happy to work with the (IMO flawed indicator) of GDP growth. In his 4 years in office, Trump has broken 3 percent GDP growth annually in precisely 3 quarters. Obama did this 7 times in his presidency and he did not have the luxury of a stable economy on inauguration day: https://www.statista.com/statistics/...gdp-in-the-us/

    On the job front, It's no contest either as Obama's last three years all beat Trump's best year and first three years combined: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjo...h=4ae32a236ba6

    Now I'm the first to admit that these naked stats are generally flawed indicators and that a larger number of stats need to be considered to get a fuller picture, but these are the stats that Trump goons are pushing in right-wing media as the tell-all indicator of their dear leader's success. Yes, the record-low unemployment stats are correct but they lack the context that Obama got the economy near the record and that Trump has just done enough to get over the record. To put it another way, Obama got the unemployment from 10% to 4.5 percent and Trump got it from 4.5 to 3.5 percent. You think that this is somehow proof of Trump's extraordinary abilities? Have a guess what Germany's pre-Covid unemployment numbers were? 3.2% and no Trump in sight. The United Kingdom has 3.8% which is the lowest since the early seventies and again, it had nothing to-do with Trump (you could actually argue that both could have been lower had it not been for Trump's misguided trans-Atlantic trade-wars but that's a different story altogether). Stock-markets on this side of the Atlantic have also been pretty high if not setting records this year alone. All of this despite Trump's best effort to throw spanners in the cogs of western political and economical systems.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    The President signed the V.A. Accountability Act and an all-inclusive Veterans Choice Bill Veterans Affairs now has a 91% approval rating.
    erm yes. Large departments need some sort of accountability (and whitleblower protection) legislation. I really don't know how that his is seen as a massive accomplishment. It's like congratulating my employer's HR department for posting a grievance procedure.... You don't get credit for what you're supposed to do.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    signed the Criminal Justice Reform Bill He created opportunity zones for minority communities and provided long-term funding to historic black colleges Secured America's borders, built up the military, and returned America to the space race by establishing a fifth military branch the Space Force.
    - Opportunity zones are often used by property developers to get government grants and to gentrify such zones in the process. I'm not saying opportunity zones don;t work in general (tbh, I just dont know) but they leave loop-holes for swampy estate agents to make a buck or five.
    - Funding for history black colleges was subject to deep and sustained cuts from 2017 to 2019 which means he is not really getting credit for an problem he crated in the first place: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/...largely-backed
    - When you outspend the next 8 or nine countries combined, then the notion that there was a problem with military spending in the first place is ludicrous. Military spending more than doubled under Bush, Obama cut it a little but and then Trump increased it a little bit again but he is still not matching Bush's Bonanza: https://www.statista.com/chart/16878...na-and-russia/ Besides, the "achievement" of not starting major new wars and decreasing overseas troop numbers should mean that military spending cane be decreased. In a way he is using american tax dollars to have his cake and eat it at the same time.
    - space race with who?

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    Let us be honest. Casebook has a very intelligent membership. The reason why President Trump has received so much resistance from the political establishment and establishment run media is he is not a globalist.
    The media do not have a requirement to be a globalist, just to be sane.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    His policies have not been horrible.
    I would categorise them as Stupid, self-serving (monetary), self-service (ego), short-sighted, Authoritarian or plain Cruel. I think that around 90% of his policies would fit into one of these six buckets.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    His big crime is he is not a member of the political establishment that includes Democrats and Republicans that have controlled the country for years,
    You see, this is where things start getting weird. The need to come up with this ridiculous construct to explain why the media is apparently outraged with trump and not his policies. I had this discusion with someone else before where the question is, how do you really cover someone who takes a sharpie and draws onto a weather map to explain his own BS? The problem is that he is clearly insulting my intelligence when he does something like this and he is then correctly panned by the world media for This. Once you realise that this was all a bit silly, consider that some of this insanity would repeat every 3-5 days In fact, give me a list of all of Obama's worst scandals and I show you a quite month in MAGA-land by conparison.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    He put it best when he said "They hate me because I am fighting for you."
    Thing is, he never fought for you. He spent 4 years stuffing his own pockets and pardoning his friends and family. There is nothing in it for the US people when he diverts military flights from Rammstein to Glasgow Airport so that the Crew can stay at a Trump golf-course... He is also not fighting for his supporters by asking them for money for a phoney legal-challenge so he can divert the money to pay off his debts. His "trickle-down" economics serve his billionaire buddies first and foremost and what money they cant make legally, the attempt to take by grifting. This is why no administration has been surrounded by so many criminals in US history.

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    Who is "they" you might ask? They are the Globalists. Globalism is a worldwide movement to move towards a one-world socialist or communist system. Members of the Globalist movement are very powerful politicians, businessmen, and world leaders.
    Ah yes, the world-wide (usually jewish) conspiracy again. I see Tucker Carlson and Sidney Powell are still going on about it...

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    England will never be allowed to leave the E.U.
    the UK has left the EU on 01 JAN 2020. 363 days ago. The problem is that they are trying to get back in through the back-door....

    Originally posted by celee View Post
    Most of us are just pawns in the game of life and we are being manipulated and controlled. I feel very helpless.
    Then Trump is not the answer because he is just manipulating those who aren't paying too much attention for his financial and mental benefit. right now he is attempting to subvert the will of the american people and to install himself for another 4 years in power. Is this not an example of being just a pawn in the game of life and feeling very helpless?

    Trump is not the answer but he has shown all of us what the problem is more than anyone else in the western hemisphere.
    Last edited by Svensson; 12-29-2020, 11:14 AM.

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    • #17
      It is obvious that you are not going to recognize everything Trump has accomplished during his Presidency and nothing is going to be good enough for you. The fact that you refuse to give the President any credit for the V.A. Accountability Act, Veterans Choice Bill, V.A. now has a 91% approval rate, the Criminal Justice Reform Bill, and the four major Middle East peace deals prove your bias against the President.

      by any measure, President Trump's economy was the best and it had nothing to do with Obama. President Trump cut regulations on businesses and encouraged manufacturing companies to come back by reducing the corporate tax rate. He made better trade deals and created opportunity zones in black communities that led to an all-time low black unemployment rate. America achieved 4.8% economic growth. Obama never reached 2% in eight years. I do not know where you got the idea that Obama ever hit 3% economic growth. Obama killed the economy with restrictions on businesses. He told the American people that they would just "have to get used to no manufacturing jobs." Because of President Trump's policies, and despite eliminating restrictions on the oil industry, creating more jobs, America reduced its carbon emissions to the lowest since 1990. Even Democrats claimed NAFTA was a horrible trade deal for the United States. So was the Trans-Atlantic Partnership. President Trump ended one-sided trade deals. The claim that President Trump accomplished nothing for the American people is false. Even after the numerous lockdowns, the economy is still better than at any time during the Obama administration.

      No President has been tougher on Putin. The president has doubled down on existing sanctions on Russia from previous administrations, and a total of 49 Russian operatives have been expelled under the Magnitsky Act a measure intended to punish Russian officials. President Trump approved the largest commercial sale of lethal weapons since 2014 to Russia’s foe Ukraine, a decision the previous administration declined to enact. A dozen executive orders have been signed by the president targeting Russia, which not only restricts their transnational businesses but also criminalizes relationships with some of their biggest energy companies. This includes the Countering America's Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which requires the president to impose a series of sanctions on North Korea, Iran, and Russia.

      President Trump also understands the deterrent value of a strong military. Congress approved his proposal for an additional $54 billion for our defense in 2017, equal to the entire defense budgets of countries such as Germany, France, and the U.K. The nearly $900 billion defense spending in 2018 dwarfs the $767 billion spent in Obama’s last year of office. This type of spending combined with the “peace through strength” mentality forces Russia and its allies to rethink their strategy going forward. In addition to addressing Russian aggression, consider the numerous steps Trump has taken to pressure our allies to recommit to our mutual security interests. He has projected an unwavering conviction to protect our national security by following through on the threat of military action in Syria and pressuring NATO countries to contribute more for their own defense unifying the Western world and deterring future threats. Trump also put the squeeze on Russian ally Iran when he withdrew from the failed nuclear deal and imposed more stringent sanctions on the mullahs.

      Anybody who claims President Trump is soft on Russia is still trying to push the debunked Russian collusion theory. I am sure Putin is glad Biden may have won the election.

      I do not wish to argue your opinions. A lot of what you posted is just rhetoric trying to justify your opinion that President Trump is horrible. There is no evidence that President Trump has "lined his pockets," He does not take a salary and his business brand has taken a big hit because half the country hates him. He obviously lost money and it would have been far more profitable for him to have stayed out of politics. He was a pop icon and largely beloved by the American public when he was just the "Donald." You might want to ask yourself how Obama and a small-town boy from Scranton. made millions of dollars as public servants. Joe Biden is worth 400 million dollars and he has been a career public servant. The one thing that frustrates me is that liberals overlook any corruption that involves the people they support. You do not think Hillary Clinton was corrupt? You can not see that Joe Biden is involved with China? Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. America's entire political system is corrupt. Washington is full of career politicians profiting from selling America out.

      If you do not feel that there is a group of Globalists who are trying to control our lives you are not paying attention. The media is incredibly corrupt. You should read about "Operation Mockingbird." of course another "conspiracy theory." However, the media has been used to control the narrative in every communist country. If you do not feel that, at the very least, there is extreme media bias against the Trump administration you are mistaken Just look at how the media covered the Hunter Biden story compared to how they treated Don JR. If any member of the Trump family had been accused of half of what Hunter has done the accusations would be all the media would talk about.

      I am ok with President Trump challenging the results of the 2020 election. The Democrats resisted the Trump administration for four years because they could not accept the results of the 2016 election. Most of the "Trump scandals" were fabricated by the Democrat establishment, the fake Russian Collusion, and a ridiculous impeachment. So, I think spending a few months investigating election fraud is justified.

      I am not in love with any politician. I am a Republican, that believes in capitalism, and I support the America first agenda. I believe that there is a worldwide rejection of globalism. I think most reasonable people understand that the dream of, a new world order and a Star Trek utopia, is unattainable. There are too many bad actors on the world stage. The British public voted to leave the E.U. twice. Remember those who opposed leaving the E.U. claimed Russian interference too. So funny. It is the globalist that is trying to "back in through the back door." The U.K. will never be allowed to leave the E.U. Socialism is a wonderful idea in theory but the power brokers are too corrupt.




      Last edited by celee; 12-30-2020, 03:16 PM.

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      • #18
        Your depiction of Obama's aid to Ukraine is grossly simplistic. You seem to be simply regurgitating a talking pointing often expressed by Matt Gaetz and similar right-wing pundits.

        The Obama Administration gave millions of dollars in aid to Ukraine, including a $56 Million dollar aid package at the height of the conflict (2014) that included patrol boats, body armor, night-vision goggles, etc. etc. Don't be so eager to drink the Kool-Aid that Fox News is serving you.

        The reason the Obama Administration didn't give lethal weapons to Ukraine (ie., Javelin anti-tank missiles) was BECAUSE they didn't trust Russia, and U.S. Intelligence services and the C.I.A. worried that Russian spies would end up with the technology. Obama also agreed with Europe that the conflict should not be escalated.

        It was a tough call. When your friend is fighting your enemy, you want to give him the best weapons, but if your friend is infiltrated by Russian spies, you fear that your enemy will end up with that technology. Would the U.S. or the U.K. have given top secret military equipment to the French Resistance during World War 2? No way in hell; the Nazis would have ended up with it.

        Can't you understand that? Or is it easier to pretend that simple answers are anything other than simple?

        Further, bi-partisan support in Congress is what release this aid to Ukraine during the Trump administration. It wasn't something that Trump was pushing; indeed, Trump's knowledge of European politics was/is close to zero. It extended no further than him wanting to build the tallest tower in Europe. In fact, Trump was trying to WITHHOLD aid from Ukraine...that's why he was impeached. Have you already forgotten? He was insisting that the Ukrainians conduct an illegal smear campaign on a political opponent before he would release the money, even though it had already been approved by Congress. It was both illegal and unethical. It was Trump's own political advisor that raised the alarm, yet now you are giving Trump credit.

        I find that bizarre. It smells more of propaganda, than nuanced reality.

        I could go on, but why bother? You've clearly bought-in.


        I don't view Trump as a Republican. I don't view him as anything, and I have family members on both sides of the political aisle. The reason many people (including lifelong Republicans like George Will, etc.) despise Trump has nothing to do with him wearing an 'R' on his shirt. Indeed, it wasn't too many years ago Trump was claiming to be a Democrat...and gave over $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation.

        I sincerely believe that Trump has no politics. He has no deeply held political views. He has no convictions, no insights. And he has no causes...except himself. He is the very swamp that he is claiming to drain.

        So for me, Trump is not about political questions. It's about the ability to recognize a grifter. Some have the ability; others do not.

        Anyway, that's all from me. He's gone in three weeks, and I couldn't be happier. My main political interest is the environment, and the Trump administration has been an utter disaster on that front.
        Last edited by rjpalmer; 12-30-2020, 05:12 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          "America achieved 4.8% economic growth. Obama never reached 2% in eight years. I do not know where you got the idea that Obama ever hit 3% economic growth"

          I provided links to official economic statistics. Unless I'm half blind, I don't see where Trump achieved 4.8%. Can you provide a source for this statement?

          Comment


          • #20
            Yes, there really is no reason to continue the discussion. You hate Trump. I do not. If your main cause is the environment you should be happy that The United States has reduced our carbon emissions to the lowest since 1990.

            Comment


            • #21
              As an outsider wading in, I'd have to give credit to Celee for putting forth a reasoned and coherent argument. OK, holes can be picked in his argument, I'm sure he'd argue otherwise, but it's good to hear a pro trump viewpoint that isn't based on outright bullshit hyperbole, of which there is much out there.

              No three word chants. No calls to 'lock up' whoever. No call to arms. All that is sadly missing in the current debate is present in Celee's post.

              In the current climate of hatred and vitriol, of calling the other side criminal, the "us Vs them", it's good to hear from a pro trump conservative republican who can actually articulate his views in a rational way. The same applies both ways. Respect. It's sadly missing lately. Disagreement is fine, by all means.

              I'm not a big fan of Trump, or his war mongering followers. But if someone wants to talk about his pro's, I'll take Celee.
              Thems the Vagaries.....

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by celee View Post
                Yes, there really is no reason to continue the discussion. You hate Trump. I do not. If your main cause is the environment you should be happy that The United States has reduced our carbon emissions to the lowest since 1990.
                You're joking, right?

                Trump's major policy platform pre-2016 was to deregulate environmental laws, including carbon emissions, and bring back coal. He succeeded somewhat in the first respect, but failed in the second; one of the major coal operations in Kentucky shutdown permanently, as did the largest coal generator in the western U.S. (located in Arizona). Technology moved on; Trump might as well have tried to bring back the butter churn and the donkey cart.

                The 2nd biggest spike in carbon emissions in the past two decades occurred in 2018--two years into the Trump Administration. (The other was under Obama in 2010).

                But even this had little to do with Trump's policies. 2018 was one of the coldest winters on record and people were burning more fuel. Again, you're looking for simplistic answers rather than nuance.

                The weather has been warmer the past two years, and emissions have flat-lined. Technological improvements (which Trump has done nothing to promote---see below) explain the rest.

                Let me remind you that the Trump administration FOUGHT California's stringent environmental regulations on the auto industry, but the auto industry ultimately ignored Trump and implemented them anyway, because California is their biggest market. The improvements were in spite of Trump, not because of him, yet, once again, the guy with the biggest mouth in the room (Trump) is given the credit.

                Are you starting to recognize a pattern?

                Let me just add an exclamation point: it was the state of California that led the way in the reduction of auto emissions IN SPITE OF TRUMP:

                Hiltzik: How California beat Trump and the auto industry - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)


                You think I'm not giving Trump credit. You're absolutely right. I'm not, because he had nothing to do with it. My view is that you are ridiculously giving Trump credit for something he actually fought against!


                But hey, if you want to believe the image instead of the reality, there's nothing I can do to stop you. You're going to have to figure it out on your own.

                Comment


                • #23
                  By the way, I can't resist.

                  Can anyone guess WHY carbon emissions are way down in 2020?

                  Any guesses? Could it possibly have to do with the economy tanking from a pandemic, and people staying home?

                  Nah. It's because of brilliant, well-meaning environmental policies .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    When a discussion like this is started people should understand not everyone hates the President. So, people should not get angry when others who support the President comment. I do not know why, but carbon emissions are the lowest since 1990. I understand that no matter what President Trump will get no credit from some people. I think Trump haters could be a little magnanimous, their guy won, maybe. I think everyone should take time to reflect on President Trump's legacy. He accomplished a lot of good things and refusing to give the man any credit for anything weakens any argument people have against him and frankly makes people sound horribly bias.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      President Trump beats out Dr. Fauci, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and the pope for 'most admired man' of 2020 - TheBlaze

                      President was just voted the most admired man of 2020. It was the first time Obama did not win in 12 years.
                      Last edited by celee; 12-30-2020, 08:07 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Instead of professionally and aggressively announcing and tackling the virus and save lives in February/March,help people and possibly win the election,Trump tried to con and fake it,in June went to a church he does not go to,raise the bible-he can't recite one verse from , and pretended he is a "holy man".And now he lost the election he is trying to con again,overturn the election,the millions of votes, using Governors and Congress.Idiot.Clown.

                        These are the "frauds" that we should be talking about.He is a con man.
                        -Trump had 3500 cases filed against him for people who did work on his properties and not paid or half/paid.
                        -He tried to con thousands of Trump university students,he had to pay $25 million back.
                        -NO American bank will deal with him because he is a fraud.
                        Last edited by Varqm; 01-01-2021, 07:11 AM.
                        Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced,it started civil society).
                        M. Pacana

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Biggest criminal act in American history.
                          Other countries were responsible,professional,showed empathy and listened to science/doctors.Vietnam only had 35 Deaths out of 96
                          million people.South Korea only has 900 Deaths out of 50 million people.Japan only had 3243 dead out of 126 million.Australia 909
                          deaths out of 25 million population.
                          We have 341000 Americans dead out of 328 million population.
                          Instead the traitor,idiot,incompetent,no-empathy clown Trump did the "see I am not wearing a mask and I have the Covid-19 virus"
                          and "injecting disinfectant could cure corona virus","the Nevada parking lot Covid-19 ward is fake","HHS scientific advisor Paul
                          Alexander,"let young people have corona,then we will achieve herd immunity.It was his duty/oath to protect American lives.
                          But the patriotic flag waving,religious republicans do not care and allowed him to be irresponsible and voted for
                          him..Horrible.FRAUDS.
                          Last edited by Varqm; 01-01-2021, 06:53 AM.
                          Clearly the first human laws (way older and already established) spawned organized religion's morality - from which it's writers only copied/stole,ex. you cannot kill,rob,steal (forced,it started civil society).
                          M. Pacana

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I am not sure what the President could have done differently. The Governor of each State ultimately has the say about how their State handles the COVID response. The President stopped travel to and from China at the end of January and travels to and from Europe at the beginning of February. At the time he was widely criticized by the media who were describing the virus as no more dangerous than the flu and the Democrats called his travel bans xenophobic and racist. Democrat leaders were encouraging people to go out and live their lives normally. Nancy Pelosi stood in the middle of China Town and asked people to join her at the festivals. At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci informed the public that using a mask was not a good idea and the virus was not air born. A lot of people made mistakes.

                            People hate the President because he did not order people to use a mask but every time, I heard the President speak on the subject he advised the public to follow the CDC guidelines and social distance and use a mask when social distancing is not possible. The President does not have the authority to order a mask mandate or a nationwide lockdown. The power is with the Governors and even Mayors in the individual States.

                            The Presidents COVID response was praised by even Democrat Governors, Cuomo, and Newsome. New York had a severe lack of ventilators. President Trump fast-tracked ventilator manufacturing and not one person died because of not being on a ventilator in the United States. The President ordered the military to build three hospitals in New York and sent a medical ship. There was a shortage of masks and the President made a deal with the My Pillow company and others to make masks and now people are provided masks everywhere they go. I have about 100 masks and have not bought one.

                            Again the President can only do so much. For example, he gave New York everything Cuomo asked for to save lives, hospitals, masks, ventilators, and even a medical ship, However, The President is helpless when the Governor of New York signed an executive order that mandated elderly covid patience be allowed into nursing homes. The death toll in Democrat-controlled states is high. The President went on national television and encouraged people to social distance but Democrat-run cities allowed mass gatherings of people protesting and rioting. When the President offered to assist the States to stop the destruction, the same people who are crying that the President should order people to use a mask, told the President he did not have the authority to act. I wonder how many deaths the Democrat policies have caused.

                            I think the medical "experts" and media caused death because they did not encourage people to take zinc and vitamin D. Simple suggestions like that could help. I am in favor of hydroxychloroquine. Regardless, at the very least, the "experts" and media should have encouraged people to take general care of themselves and take vitamins D C, and zink.

                            Dr. Fauci said the President's travel bans saved lives. The Governor of New York and California praised the President for providing the medical aid they needed and for giving them everything they requested quickly. I am wondering how many lives the President saved. I think people forget that at the beginning of the pandemic the "experts" claimed there would be two million American deaths in 2020. It shows poor taste to blame the President for the tragic deaths there is plenty of blame to go around. Because of the President's leadership, a vaccine is now available in record time.

                            I do not know much about the President's business deals before he became President. I do know that no President or Presidential candidate in my lifetime could withstand the scrutiny the liberals have subjected President Trump to. Joe Biden is corrupt. If you do not believe the evidence, explain to me how a small-town boy from Scranton who has spent 47 years as a public servant gains a fortune of 400 million dollars on a Senator's salary. I bet if the public vigilantes put Kamala Harris under the microscope they would find corruption.

                            People who hate the President should stop being hypocrites.



                            Comment


                            • #29
                              BTW the President never said injecting disinfectant would cure the COVID virus. He asked the doctors if a disinfectant could be used as a treatment. There is a difference between asking a question and proclaiming a cure. Any reasonable person watching the press conference understood the President's intention. A big problem is that a lot of the President's detractors do not bother to listen to what the man has to say about anything.

                              The President went to the Church because terrorists had vandalized the Church earlier. The Church is one of the oldest Churches in American history our founders attended the Church. President Trump was standing in solidarity with them. I was moved to tears. It is heartbreaking to see people destroy your countries history and it was very inspirational to see President Trump stand up for America.

                              I do not know how much Bible knowledge the President has. However, I doubt any liberal hater does either. I do know God is in favor of anyone who spreads his words. I do know that Joe Biden struggles with basic knowledge concerning American History and he claims to be President.

                              I am not sure what is wrong with being patriotic and religious or waving the United States Flag. Patriotism is the common bond that keeps Americans united regardless of race, religion, and gender. Without the bond of American citizenship, America would become a tribal nation and ultimately fail. The Christian religion is a religion of love. Flag-waving religious patriots are the very best America has to offer. It was largely flag-waving religious patriots who fought two world wars to protect mankind.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                A few notes about COVID death claims. It is absurd to suggest there has been “something wrong” with the U.S. response to COVID just because somebody’s figures allege that Vietnam has “only had 35 COVID deaths” out of 96 million people, a supposed death rate of less than 0.4 per million.

                                To start with, I don’t believe one word of that! Vietnam is one of the many Third World countries, like India, that don’t document many of the deaths that happen and certainly don’t diagnose all the causes. The case of India for instance has been discussed elsewhere, as to why they report a spuriously low rate of (currently) “only” 108 deaths per million. Compared with that, Vietnam’s supposed rate of 0.4 is so preposterous as to defy belief. The fact is that poorer nations just can’t afford the bureaucracy to properly investigate and record the causes of more than a fraction of the deaths that occur, so COVID deaths are grossly underreported. In any case reporting characteristics can vary widely in what are euphemistically called “developing” countries (meaning they’re not as developed yet as we are in what we call the “Western” world), so figures from these places are not always comparable--quite aside from other factors.

                                In any case we can’t necessarily trust the governments of some tinpot nations to report statistics accurately, even if they have them. A most ludicrous example is Turkmenistan, whose idiot dictator took an ostrich-like attitude to the whole COVID problem, pretending it didn’t exist and forbidding his people to discuss it! Needless to say, outside observers report the level of COVID-19 in Turkmenistan as “very high.”

                                Another notorious instance is Venezuela, which has been reporting a paltry 37 deaths per million. Seriously, can anybody believe those numbers? In a country whose economy and infrastructure has been ruthlessly wrecked by a gang of criminal leftist oppressors who ought to be shot, where everything from food to medical materials is in short supply, where people are starving and have low resistance to disease, and anyone who can--including doctors and other health care workers--have fled the place in droves? When neighboring Colombia, despite probable shortfalls in reporting, is claiming 850 deaths per million? 37 Pull the other leg, Maduro, it’s got bells on!

                                Apart from reporting shortfalls, there are scads of other factors--geographic, climatic, economic, ecologic, cultural, racial and biological--that profoundly affect the spread of COVID and are quite outside the control of any government, which can not therefore be blamed for these differences from one nation to another.

                                For instance, I am quite willing to believe that Vietnam does have a lower rate of COVID mortality than the U.S. (though not 0.4 per million!)--and India too, along with others. Poorer nations can have two advantages over richer ones in this respect. First, simply because they’re poor, they can’t afford to travel as often and widely as we do, which spreads any infectious disease more broadly and rapidly. And secondly--again, depending on the nation--because they’re less urbanized--which involves people crowded or commuting into packed cities where infectious diseases are quickly transmitted due to close contact.

                                For some nations, population density can be a factor, but it’s not the only one. As it happens, we have a far lower population density in the U.S. (94 per square mile) than Vietnam (817) while India is higher at 1144. But “low population density” doesn’t help us if most of that land is in the empty plains of Texas, the frozen wastes of Alaska, or the desert here in Arizona, while most of the population is packed into cities like New York and L.A., brushing shoulders in the streets and swapping germs on the subway on their way to work. Here in the U.S., 82 percent of the population is urbanized, while in Vietnam a mere 37 percent of the population is. All the rest are out in the fields tending their rice paddies, never going far from their peaceful homes, and not spreading COVID around the population at large. Even though India is far more crowded overall, with the exception of Bombay, Calcutta and whatnot (or whatever names they’re calling these cities by today--thank goodness Delhi is still “Delhi”!), the nation is less urbanized still--only 34.5 percent--and I don’t doubt there has been less transmission of COVID throughout India as a whole.

                                Among the nations that are “developed,” there are, to be sure, a few strikingly low death rates: Australasia and Japan above all, while Canada and Germany are also notably lower than the average. The first two seem especially hard to account for. Some of it may be a matter of luck in being geographically isolated, with relatively fewer initial points of infection from overseas travelers, giving governments more time to react at the outset and put a plan in place early enough to control it. But there are other factors, including “cultural” ones.

                                Japan, crowded and highly urbanized, should have been a sitting duck for COVID, but for one thing it has been pointed out that the very formal Japanese do not indulge in as much close personal contact as Westerners do, and also have customary good hygiene practices--probably in response to having always been a crowded nation.

                                Then too, another cultural factor is the willing response of the Japanese to authority, and the tendency to do things in lockstep--which includes wearing masks or whatever they’re told to do. The unfortunate extreme example of this was of course the employees of that suburban Tokyo bank who in 1948 obediently swallowed cyanide--“all together now!”--handed to them by a robber masquerading as a health official inoculating them against dysentery. Most Westerners wouldn’t be so unquestioningly obedient. But when it came to precautions against COVID, this cultural behavior was a clear survival advantage.

                                Much the same could be said for a tendency toward coordination and organized response, a cultural trait shared to some extent by the Germans with their legendary “Teutonic efficiency.” This should be contrasted with the individualism and resistance to authority traditional in the United States, where some people’s attitudes are ”We don’t need no stinking masks!” while others indulge in large outdoor gatherings saying “To hell with COVID, who cares? We ain’t gonna die anyway!” Most of them are young, so they don’t. But they can pass it on to others who do.

                                Among the “cultural” (or “biological”) speculations is the possibility that certain vaccinations the Japanese people routinely receive, which people in the West do not, may confer some resistance to COVID. In addition, there might be racial factors. After all, most of these pandemics originated there in the Far East--including some strains of influenza and the “Black Death” that wiped out a third of Europe’s population. It’s not unlikely that East Asians generally--Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese and Cambodians perhaps--have acquired a greater natural resistance to diseases like COVID than Westerners have. Although this thing started in China because of their exotic animal markets, China is reporting a measly three deaths per million from COVID! Anyone who believed in “conspiracy theories” would say COVID was a diabolical Chinese plot to wipe out the rest of the world! Of course I believe no such nonsense, though I don’t believe the Chinese government is telling the truth about the numbers either. But it’s also likely that Chinese people are historically more resistant to viruses of this kind than the rest of the world--just as Europeans were more resistant to diseases nurtured by close contact with animals than the luckless people they encountered in the New World.

                                Finally the “racial” or “ethnic” factor must be considered from another angle. The United States, like most “Western” countries, has a substantial population of ethnic minorities, many of whom are far poorer than the majority. Due to an unfortunate history of slavery, one eighth of the U.S. population is black, many of whom (though not all by any means) remain poor. On top of that, we have scads of illegal (mostly Hispanic) immigrants, with many living in poor conditions.

                                Western Europe has similar conditions today. While it doesn’t have a historic population of markedly poorer ethnic minorities, it has in more recent decades acquired a whole bunch of immigrants living in disaffected conditions--see the riots everywhere from Notting Hill in London to certain districts of Paris for instance--with a lot of illegal immigrants also.

                                From the viewpoint of COVID, the trouble with any group living in markedly poorer conditions than the majority is twofold First, living in relative squalor, they are less likely to practice good hygiene--quite unlike the fastidious Japanese. And secondly, they are more likely to suffer from underlying health conditions, whether due to poor nutrition or lack of health care, both of which predispose them toward more serious consequences and death from COVID.

                                Statistics bear this out. Death rates from COVID among the black and Hispanic population of the United States are nearly three times that of the white population. Similar differences were found between the black and white populations of the UK. Needless to say, a minority of this kind not only skews the death rates for a given nation, but can also form a reservoir of infection for the rest of a nation.

                                Of course, there could be genetic differences too. Perhaps African populations are even less resistant to COVID than Caucasian populations. But the bottom line is this: that the “Western” countries with markedly fewer COVID deaths are especially those without high immigrant, nonwhite (excluding Asian) or poor minority populations.

                                Canada is one, compared with the U.S. Australia and New Zealand especially are two others, sitting happily in the middle of the ocean, hard to reach by would-be illegal immigrants, and where relatively few of the population are srtikingly poorer than the rest. Compare this with Italy, which had the worst initial outbreak of COVID, situated on the north shores of the Mediterranean and a prime target for illegals boating over from North Africa. Then take Japan, isolated in the Pacific, with a homogeneous population and historically xenophobic, hostile to foreign immigration until the recent demographics of an aging population drove them to consider admitting more gaijin. That policy has served the Japanese well as far as protection from COVID goes.

                                The bottom line is that governments are not necessarily to blame for COVID deaths due to historical conditions they only inherited and had no control over. At least Trump, unlike the leftists, did his best to keep illegal immigrants out, for numerous good reasons unrelated to COVID. But above all, when it comes to COVID, it’s only fair to compare apples to apples and not to oranges! As far as Western civilization goes, countries like Australia and New Zealand, even Canada, are anomalies for one reason or another. If we make a fairer comparison with most of Western Europe--with France, the UK, and other nations--it’s plain that Americans have nothing to whine and scream about. In terms of death rates we’re better off than other civilized nations like Belgium, the UK, and Spain, and still pretty comparable with France, Switzerland, Sweden and other places in spite of the problems unique to the U.S. We’ve done all this in spite of not having to tolerate the stringent lockdowns they’ve had to put up with in the UK and other places. So who’s complaining?

                                COVID is not even the catastrophe that some people make it out to be. Certainly it can’t be remotely compared with the Black Death of the 14th century, Compared with COVID, the Spanish flu pandemic a century ago wiped out six times as many per million of the U.S. population alone. We survived all that anyway. The COVID epidemic in the U.S. has only raised the usual death rate by 10 percent across the board, pretty much proportionately: that’s to say, children least of all, and most among the elderly, who are prone to die anyway. Of course we sympathize with those who have lost loved ones prematurely, but it could be a lot worse.

                                Naturally the whiny leftist media will pick on any excuse they can find to blame Trump for something, and fabricate “evidence” that our great nation is being woefully misgoverned, often by cherry-picking comparisons with other nations that take no account of how nations as a whole are faring, or of our particular problems that other nations don’t have. As far as I’m concerned, these carping critics can all get lost. We’re doing as well as anyone can expect, and a great deal better than most!
                                Last edited by Gordon; 01-02-2021, 11:43 AM.

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