The Best Ever Trump Put-Down?

[Svensson]

I am not sure what the President could have done differently. The Governor of each State ultimately has the say about how their State handles the COVID response. The President stopped travel to and from China at the end of January and travels to and from Europe at the beginning of February. At the time he was widely criticized by the media who were describing the virus as no more dangerous than the flu and the Democrats called his travel bans xenophobic and racist. Democrat leaders were encouraging people to go out and live their lives normally. Nancy Pelosi stood in the middle of China Town and asked people to join her at the festivals. At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci informed the public that using a mask was not a good idea and the virus was not air born. A lot of people made mistakes.

Your last few posts have read like a Shaun Hannity Press-release and I honestly do not have the time and resources to address each and every sentence in them ,so I will just concentrate on a few low-hanging fruit....


"I am not sure what the President could have done differently."
The high-level issue is that the spread of the virus needs to be contained until a large enough number of the population is inoculated for the spread to stop. The measures required is dictated by how many people the health care system can treat at any one time and what human cost is acceptable. In particular, he could have

- Centrally organise a testing strategy. Some states have labs, others have factories for the materials, others have the expertise, etc etc. Instead, he just said, "testing is not our/my job" (note: this hasn't stopped him from taking credit once the testing was up and running).
- If there are shortages anywhere in the chain, utilise the defence production act as opposed to just threatening its use.
- stick to a CONSISTENT message on measures against the spread of the virus such as mask wearing, closing but then supporting businesses such as pubs and nightclubs.
- Promote treatments when they are backed up by science. A doctor who talks about Alien Sperm is not a scientist (mad scientists don't count).
- Be open and frank with the american public (by comparison, have a look at how Adern or Merkel handled public comms).
- don't torpedo how each governor handles it's own covid response (i.e. "Free Michigan" tweets).
- Don;t pretend this is all a hoax to make him look bad. remember when he said that on November 4th, CNN and NYTimes will stop reporting on Covid? Well they haven't becasue it was NOT about Trump...

the travel ban on China only bought Trump some time because it was clear that by that time, the Virus was already in the country. The question is, how do you use the time that you have just bought? trump decided to use it to do nothing. Instead, he proclaimed "if you have 15 cases, and in no time, they are close to zero, we will have done a pretty good job". He is correct. He would have done a pretty good job but alas, he very obviously didn't.


"the media who were describing the virus as no more dangerous than the flu"
Fox did, yes. The real media did certainly not.I actually agree with you that it is a terrible thing that Covid is belittled and systematically compared with the common flu. Fortunately, Forbes have compiled a list of dozens of times that trump has done exactly that even after he was taped by Woodward that he knew this virus is a serious problem: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=4b9dcc3bf9d2 . THis one here is a real doosey....:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
·
9 Mar 2020
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

Yes. I have thought about that and I have concluded that Trump's tweet is full or horse-manure.


"At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci informed the public that using a mask was not a good idea and the virus was not air born."

Yes, and Fauci was clear at the time that the public should not start buying masks because the short supplies were needed by medics and that it was not certain at the time that the virus would spread mainly via air droplets. the medical advice will usually change when the understanding of the virus itself changes. None of this is rocket science IMHO...

[Svensson]

BTW the President never said injecting disinfectant would cure the COVID virus. He asked the doctors if a disinfectant could be used as a treatment. There is a difference between asking a question and proclaiming a cure. Any reasonable person watching the press conference understood the President's intention. A big problem is that a lot of the President's detractors do not bother to listen to what the man has to say about anything.

You're trying to save Trump's backside by splitting hairs now. If does not matter if he was suggesting it as a cure or as a treatment. Bleach does not belong into a human body except for the purpose/intent of killing that person. A fifth-grader should know this but Trump does not have the mental capacity of a fith-grader to know this. And yes, we did listen. Very carefull. And we concluded that he hasn't got a flippin clue what he is talking about.

I do not know how much Bible knowledge the President has.

I do. It is exactly zero. And if you are curious to find out, watch this video. If you have ever lied as a ten-year-old, you will recognise what is going on here.

[Svensson]

President Trump beats out Dr. Fauci, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and the pope for 'most admired man' of 2020 - TheBlaze

President was just voted the most admired man of 2020. It was the first time Obama did not win in 12 years.

meaning? I mean this is 18% who voted for him right? and 82% who didn;t....

[Svensson]

When a discussion like this is started people should understand not everyone hates the President. So, people should not get angry when others who support the President comment. I do not know why, but carbon emissions are the lowest since 1990. I understand that no matter what President Trump will get no credit from some people. I think Trump haters could be a little magnanimous, their guy won, maybe. I think everyone should take time to reflect on President Trump's legacy. He accomplished a lot of good things and refusing to give the man any credit for anything weakens any argument people have against him and frankly makes people sound horribly bias.

maybe there is something I should clear up. You seem to think that people critical of Trump have decided they hate the guy and therefor they hate everything he does. With me, it is the other way round. I read what he says' proposes and I realise that much of it does not pass the sniff test or is unacceptable for someone who wants to lead a country. This started relatively early in 2016 with stupid stunts like:

- His fake medical dictated to his gatro-guy which stated that all his tests are positive and that Trump is without a doubt the healthiest man to ever run for office (seriously, how stupid did Trump think the american people were to fall for this. I give you a clue, Trump was right....)
- His list of where is considers himself the world's eminent subject matter expert:

• ISIS: "I know more about ISIS than the generals do." (November 2015.)
• Social media: "I understand social media. I understand the power of Twitter. I understand the power of Facebook maybe better than almost anybody, based on my results, right?" (November 2015.)
• Courts: "I know more about courts than any human being on Earth." (November 2015.)
• Lawsuits: "[W]ho knows more about lawsuits than I do? I'm the king." (January 2016.)
• Politicians: "I understand politicians better than anybody."
• The visa system: "[N]obody knows the system better than me. I know the H1B. I know the H2B. ... Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me." (March 2016.)
• Trade: "Nobody knows more about trade than me." (March 2016.)
• The U.S. government system: "[N]obody knows the system better than I do." (April 2016.)
• Renewable energy: "I know more about renewables than any human being on Earth." (April 2016.)
• Taxes: "I think nobody knows more about taxes than I do, maybe in the history of the world." (May 2016.)
• Debt: "I’m the king of debt. I’m great with debt. Nobody knows debt better than me." (June 2016.)
• Money: "I understand money better than anybody." (June 2016.)
• Infrastructure: "[L]ook, as a builder, nobody in the history of this country has ever known so much about infrastructure as Donald Trump." (July 2016.)
• Sen. Cory Booker: "I know more about Cory than he knows about himself." (July 2016.)
• Borders: Trump said in 2016 that Sheriff Joe Arpaio said he was endorsing him for president because "you know more about this stuff than anybody."
• Democrats: "I think I know more about the other side than almost anybody." (November 2016.)
• Construction: "[N]obody knows more about construction than I do." (May 2018.)
• The economy: "I think I know about it better than [the Federal Reserve]." (October 2018.)
• Technology: "Technology — nobody knows more about technology than me." (December 2018.)
• Drones: "I know more about drones than anybody. I know about every form of safety that you can have." (January 2019.)
• Drone technology: "Having a drone fly overhead — and I think nobody knows much more about technology, this type of technology certainly, than I do." (January 2019.)

Honestly: At which point to you start calling for a straight-jacket?

So, you ask why I hate trump. It's because of his pattern of lying and BS'ing. The lists of his "accomplishments" you have provided as proof of his proficency as president is largely that: BS. And I don't give credit for BS.

If this makes me biased, then it's because I am biased towards facts and the truth. I'm more than happy to live with this tag.

btw, we still need to talk about the economy....

[GUT]

Seems to me reading all the arguments between left and right, here and multiple other places, it is time to change the name to just SA, nothing United about the country now, that’s for sure.

[Svensson]

by any measure, President Trump's economy was the best and it had nothing to do with Obama. President Trump cut regulations on businesses and encouraged manufacturing companies to come back by reducing the corporate tax rate. He made better trade deals and created opportunity zones in black communities that led to an all-time low black unemployment rate. America achieved 4.8% economic growth. Obama never reached 2% in eight years. I do not know where you got the idea that Obama ever hit 3% economic growth. Obama killed the economy with restrictions on businesses. He told the American people that they would just "have to get used to no manufacturing jobs." Because of President Trump's policies, and despite eliminating restrictions on the oil industry, creating more jobs, America reduced its carbon emissions to the lowest since 1990. Even Democrats claimed NAFTA was a horrible trade deal for the United States. So was the Trans-Atlantic Partnership. President Trump ended one-sided trade deals. The claim that President Trump accomplished nothing for the American people is false. Even after the numerous lockdowns, the economy is still better than at any time during the Obama administration.

Since the economy is THE central argument of the Trump propaganda machine, I really want you to loo at the official GDP stats:


It confirms that Obama has made 4% GDP growth 4 times, he croseed 5% twice in his eight years, Trump on the other hand crossed 3% four times but never 4% once (nevermind 5%). Therefore, it is inpossible for Trump to have delivered 4.8% growth at any time. Therefore, if you have been told this by Fox, the Blaze, or newsmax, if was a flat out lie and The GDP growth stats do not suggest that the Trump economy was anything but "good".

Looking at Annual GDP numbers, a similar story is can be observed. Trump's 2018 number beat Obama's 2015 by 0.02% (2.93 vs. 2.91) but apart from that, Trump is usually hovering around 2 - 2.5% annual growth. Nothing like the 4 or 5 % that he and his supporters like to talk about.

I guess this highlights my problem with Trump and his supporters in a nutshell. I am perfect happy to give him credit for a 2.5 economic growth grate. I am also perfectly happy for trying to engage North Korea directly even tough it didn't work.What I can NOT give him credit for is his lies that he is some kind of economic miracle or has resolved the North Korean issue.

No President has been tougher on Putin. The president has doubled down on existing sanctions on Russia from previous administrations, and a total of 49 Russian operatives have been expelled under the Magnitsky Act a measure intended to punish Russian officials. President Trump approved the largest commercial sale of lethal weapons since 2014 to Russia;s foe Ukraine, a decision the previous administration declined to enact.

So the issue is not so much what Trump did do with Russia, it is what he did NOT do with Russia in response to their transgression but I want to home in on the bit that I bolded because it is an excellent example of how the Trump propaganda machine operates and is continually fooling people.

Russian operatives first invaded eastern Ukraine in 2014 due to some diplomatic pretence. The west's initial reaction was not to enrage in a full-blown war with Russia but to start with diplomatic pressure. After that the EU and the US continued with sanctions. Both of these are essentially a long game and they need to be given time to see if they work. I'm sure that any republican can understand that part. In 2015 then, the Minsk Protocol was enacted by Germany, Russia, Ukraine and France but by 2018, it became clear that even of "Minsk II", none of the provisions were fully enacted which then left people to conclude that diplomatic options were exhausted. It was at this point that the US started to arm the Ukrainian government for this purpose (something that Trump then withheld in order to blackmail political favours from Ukraine). The EU meanwhile continued in helping Ukraine in addressing the causes for the war using direct aid. In fact, in 2016/17, the EU alone more than doubled the US contributions. In addition to that, Germany on its own almost matched the the US contributions on its own. Note that I explicitly state "in addition" to what germany were already paying through the EU budget: https://www.factcheck.org/2019/09/tr...id-to-ukraine/

So this is another thing that Trump lied about to the american people. It seems like the guy can't stop, ey?

Anybody who claims President Trump is soft on Russia is still trying to push the debunked Russian collusion theory.

Muller Report:
Volume I of the report concludes that the investigation did not find sufficient evidence that the campaign "coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities".^[4][5][6] Investigators ultimately had an incomplete picture of what happened due to communications that were encrypted, deleted, or not saved and due to testimony that was false, incomplete, or declined.^[7][8][9] However, the report states that Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election was illegal and occurred "in sweeping and systematic fashion"^[10][11][12] but was welcomed by the Trump campaign as it expected to benefit from such efforts.^[13][14][15] It also identifies links between Trump campaign officials and individuals with ties to the Russian government,^[16] about which several persons connected to the campaign made false statements and obstructed investigations.^[4] Mueller later stated that his investigation's conclusion on Russian interference "deserves the attention of every American".^[17]

I am ok with President Trump challenging the results of the 2020 election. The Democrats resisted the Trump administration for four years because they could not accept the results of the 2016 election. Most of the "Trump scandals" were fabricated by the Democrat establishment, the fake Russian Collusion, and a ridiculous impeachment. So, I think spending a few months investigating election fraud is justified.

Right now, we have Louis Gohmert (clown) arguing on court that a sitting VP, not the american people, should be able to decide who becomes president. Are you seriously suggesting to everyone that you are perfectly fine with this?

When you have doubts about the legality of an election, you should have the right the make your case and have your day in court. No one that I know disputes this. Here, the republicans are suggesting that there was wide-spread voter-fraud. Enough in fact to tip the outcome of the election. So what should be done tin such a case? You present your evidence to a judge and have him adjudicate.

My question to you: how many attempts to make this case should a plaintiff have? 3 attempts? 7 attempts? Maybe 15?

The Trump administration has so far had more than 51 such cases and in none of them have the Republicans made a compelling case for wide-spread and systematic voter-fraud that would invalidate the results? Wikipedia have a breakdown at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-e...ntial_election. It currently stands at:

10 cases were dropped (because the lawyers for Trump didn't want to embarrass themselves).
26 cases were dismissed before any hearing becasue the judge said "you have nothing and you're wasting everyone's time"
7 cases have ongoing appeals (so they have already lost but want to keep it going so they can continue to fleece thier supporters for money)
2 cases are still ongoing )pne of them is "Donald J. Trump for President v. Boockvar", which is about how long after the election date postal ballots can be accepted and is not even about voter fraud but I can not find the other one right now)
6 have been ruled against the plaintiff. These are the cases where the judge said "OK, let's look at this". remember, there are 36 cases that didnlt even make it this far....

So my additional question to you is: How many failed court cases does it take until you accept this this is all a farce and has no merrit?

And my follow-on question to you then is: Would you be OK with 51 separate investigations into Trump's ties with Russia? Becasue if, for fairness sake, the answer is yes, there should be another 48 on its way.

The British public voted to leave the E.U. twice.

There was one vote in June 2016. When was the other one? I think you really need to double-check your sources and again, the issues since 2016 were not IF the UK would leave the EU but HOW. Once this was resolved, the question was what the future relationship would look like and this was only resolved a week ago. there was NEVER a question on IF the UK would leave the EU.

Remember those who opposed leaving the E.U. claimed Russian interference too.

I think you got your facts wrong again. The Cambridge Analytica scandal was that the company harvested use-data from facebook without the user's permission to influence elections world-wide. They were not involved with Russia but Russia then took the same model to influence the US election. A good summary from Wikipedia:

Cambridge Analytica Ltd (CA) was a British political consulting firm that was involved in influencing hundreds of elections globally and that came to prominence through the Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal. It was started in 2013^[6] as a subsidiary of the private intelligence company and self-described "global election management agency" SCL Group by long-time SCL executives Nigel Oakes, Alexander Nix and Alexander Oakes, with Nix as CEO.^[6] The company had close ties to the Conservative Party (UK), the British royal family and the British military.^[7] The firm maintained offices in London, New York City, and Washington, DC.^[8] The company closed operations in 2018 in the course of the Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal, although related firms still exist.^[9]

It is the globalist that is trying to "back in through the back door." The U.K. will never be allowed to leave the E.U.

You are entitled to your own reality if it fits your narrative but here on Earth 1, the UK has left the EU on 01 JAN 2020, which was 367 days ago.

[Gordon]

Seems to me reading all the arguments between left and right, here and multiple other places, it is time to change the name to just SA, nothing United about the country now, that’s for sure.

DSA: the Divided States of America?
BSA: the Benighted States of America?
CSA? No, better skip that one, already taken...

[celee]

Most people who are critical of Trump judged him before he ever became President. Calls for impeachment and the resistance movement started before he took office. President Trump is a narcissist and that may bother some people but not me. I love President Trump's policies I do not care if he wants to blow his own horn. Most narcissists are insecure people. The bias media really fuels President Trump's need to build himself up. The media constantly attacks him unfairly and sometimes dishonestly. For years the media has claimed President Trump never denounced white supremacy after the tragic events that took place in Charlottesville. Take a moment and listen to the comments the President made right after the riot. If Obama had made such a speech the media would have praised him. However, the media lied to the American public showed edited footage to push their racist narrative. Just take five minutes. https://youtu.be/mKi2AOPBavU

[celee]

Your last few posts have read like a Shaun Hannity Press-release and I honestly do not have the time and resources to address each and every sentence in them ,so I will just concentrate on a few low-hanging fruit....


"I am not sure what the President could have done differently."
The high-level issue is that the spread of the virus needs to be contained until a large enough number of the population is inoculated for the spread to stop. The measures required is dictated by how many people the health care system can treat at any one time and what human cost is acceptable. In particular, he could have

- Centrally organise a testing strategy. Some states have labs, others have factories for the materials, others have the expertise, etc etc. Instead, he just said, "testing is not our/my job" (note: this hasn't stopped him from taking credit once the testing was up and running).
- If there are shortages anywhere in the chain, utilise the defence production act as opposed to just threatening its use.
- stick to a CONSISTENT message on measures against the spread of the virus such as mask wearing, closing but then supporting businesses such as pubs and nightclubs.
- Promote treatments when they are backed up by science. A doctor who talks about Alien Sperm is not a scientist (mad scientists don't count).
- Be open and frank with the american public (by comparison, have a look at how Adern or Merkel handled public comms).
- don't torpedo how each governor handles it's own covid response (i.e. "Free Michigan" tweets).
- Don;t pretend this is all a hoax to make him look bad. remember when he said that on November 4th, CNN and NYTimes will stop reporting on Covid? Well they haven't becasue it was NOT about Trump...

the travel ban on China only bought Trump some time because it was clear that by that time, the Virus was already in the country. The question is, how do you use the time that you have just bought? trump decided to use it to do nothing. Instead, he proclaimed "if you have 15 cases, and in no time, they are close to zero, we will have done a pretty good job". He is correct. He would have done a pretty good job but alas, he very obviously didn't.


"the media who were describing the virus as no more dangerous than the flu"
Fox did, yes. The real media did certainly not.I actually agree with you that it is a terrible thing that Covid is belittled and systematically compared with the common flu. Fortunately, Forbes have compiled a list of dozens of times that trump has done exactly that even after he was taped by Woodward that he knew this virus is a serious problem: https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybe...h=4b9dcc3bf9d2 . THis one here is a real doosey....:

Donald J. Trump

@realDonaldTrump
·
9 Mar 2020
So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!

Yes. I have thought about that and I have concluded that Trump's tweet is full or horse-manure.


"At the beginning of the pandemic, Dr. Fauci informed the public that using a mask was not a good idea and the virus was not air born."

Yes, and Fauci was clear at the time that the public should not start buying masks because the short supplies were needed by medics and that it was not certain at the time that the virus would spread mainly via air droplets. the medical advice will usually change when the understanding of the virus itself changes. None of this is rocket science IMHO...

Dr. Fauci said that the President's travel ban on China and Europe saved lives. Washington Post, New York Times, MSNBC, and CNN were all downplaying the dangers of the virus in January and February. Democrat leaders were claiming the virus was not a threat and encouraged people to come out and celebrate in China Town. You need to double-check your research. I guess you ignored the fact that President Trump made sure the States had what they needed. Remember, New York, claiming they would not have enough ventilators? Remember the mask shortage President Trump solved all those problems and was praised by Democrat Governors for his COVID response. Every time I watched the President speak he encouraged the public to follow CDC guidelines, social distance, and use a mask when social distancing is not possible. I guess the President deserves no credit for operation warp speed'? I guess Democrat Governors are blameless for the mistakes they made? Fair enough.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Seems to me reading all the arguments between left and right, here and multiple other places, it is time to change the name to just SA, nothing United about the country now, that’s for sure.

It's genuinely worrying the amount of anger, across the board, in America. Years of unresolved issues are now boiling and breaking the surface. It's the constant cries for "locking them up", martial law, armed groups on the streets. This state of affairs is going to cost lives. Have people not suffered enough already without civil war?

[jmenges]

Happy New Year everyone.
Don’t bother reporting posts in Pub Talk unless a spambot or Russian hacker slips through.
We don’t really moderate these threads.
We do, however, expect you to be civil with one another and comport yourselves with the grace and dignity that members of Casebook are known for, the world over.

God bless,

JM

[celee]

It's genuinely worrying the amount of anger, across the board, in America. Years of unresolved issues are now boiling and breaking the surface. It's the constant cries for "locking them up", martial law, armed groups on the streets. This state of affairs is going to cost lives. Have people not suffered enough already without civil war?

There is a lot going on. I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective and even consider that they may have been wrong about some of their beliefs. I posted a video yesterday where the President is denouncing white supremacy and condemning the violence in Charlottesville. The video totally destroys the narrative of the media and liberals that President Trump said "The white supremacist were fine people." Nobody is going to acknowledge the video. I would welcome a good discussion with someone who can be objective.

I understand the shock and disappointment the liberals felt when President Trump won the election. They were all set to welcome the first female President. The progressives felt it was time for a female President it was very important to them and what happened America elected the most narcissistic, misogynist, alpha male, who exuded toxic masculinity. The liberals must have been gutted. They must have felt that their hopes for the future had taken three giant steps backward and the media told them that Donald Trump the buffoonish pop icon would never win. I have been following politics closely all my adult life and I have never seen media coverage so weird as the mainstream media covered election night 2016. A person watching would have thought a President had died rather than been elected.

Every time a Republican is elected he is confronted with the same accusations of racism, sexism. and xenophobia. The Democrat's political platform is centered around identity politics. However, when Donald Trump took office the standard accusations were supersized. Donald Trump was pure evil. He was Hitler reborn. The same people who set in front of their televisions and enjoyed Donald Trump the television personality suddenly believed "the Donald" was the antichrist. The celebrities who attended parties thrown by "the Donald" and the politicians who gladly took his money suddenly felt he was a treasonous Russian spy and the people who voted for him were deplorable knuckle-dragging racists. The resistance movement started before the man even took office. Trump's policies did not matter. The fact that Donald Trump was a reformed ex-Democrat and a very moderate Republican who the Democrats could have worked with made no difference talks of impeachment started before he took office.

Other Presidents have had to endure unfair criticism by the media and public. However, nothing compares to the level of pure hatred President Trump and his supporters have had to put up with. The bias media has beat our President up with lies and misrepresenting things he said. The President never called immigrants "animals." He said MS-13 gang members were animals. He never said, "white supremacists were fine people." He never suggested that people "should drink Clorox." He asked the doctors iF some kind of disinfectant can be used as a treatment. The media went crazy when President Trump went to a Church and held up the Bible. Somehow the media failed to report on why the President went to the Church and the significance of the Church. The Church was one of the oldest Churches in American history. Our country's founders attended the Church. Rioters burned the Church that is why the President went there. I could go on and on with examples. The media called President Trump supporters Nazis and compared ANTIFA the terrorist, "anti-fascist organization" that ironically suppress speech they do not agree with by using intimidation and violence just like Hitler's fascist Brown Coats, who attacked Trump supporters, woman, elderly, crippled, to "Marines storming the beach at Normandy" There has been violence on both sides but it is the Democrats and media that have divided the country created the environment for the violence that America has been subjected to over the last four years. An unhealthy precedent was set in 2016 of disrespecting the office of the President and condoning violent rioting as an acceptable form of political protest.

How does it end and we begin to heal as a country? The Democrats need to stop all the hateful rhetoric and gain some perspective. The President is not the antichrist. It is ok to criticize some of his policies but give him some credit for his accomplishments. President Trump is a businessman and I am sure like all rich and powerful people he has blurred the lines of right and wrong in his business deals. However, for four years President Trump has been investigated and the government special council's investigation was not limited to Russia. The lawyers basically investigated his entire life and nothing criminal was leaked out and it would have been leaked. The New York Times leaked his tax returns and all they came up with was a big surprise, he did not pay enough taxes and took advantage of tax laws. I am sure that Donald Trump the businessman was corrupt. The rich and powerful all are. The average person who identifies as a Democrat needs to understand that the Bidens, Clintons, Obamas, are all corrupt too and stop holding President Trump to a standard they are not willing to hold Democrat candidates to. Speaking as a conservative, the hypocrisy of the liberals is extremely frustrating. For four years they refused to accept the results of the 2016 elections. The Democrat establishment accused the President of colluding with Russia when there was no evidence of the Trump campaign working with Russia regardless if Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 election. The Democrats may feel that President Trump is a Russian operative but they need to quietly let the Trump supporters vent their frustration and challenge the results of the 2020 election. There is far more evidence connecting Biden to China than there was evidence connecting Trump to Russia and there is evidence of election corruption. Most of the cases that have been dismissed by the courts have been dismissed because the Judge ruled the plaintiff had no standing to bring the case. The evidence never was allowed to be presented. The President's legal team has been allowed to present their evidence to the State Legislators. Perhaps Trump haters could take the time and watch a hearing where the evidence is being presented before they dismiss Trump supporters as a "conspiracy theorist."

Understanding each other is the key to uniting the country. Democrats need to be objective and have some self-awareness. It makes Trump supporters upset when liberals want us to shut up accept the results of the election and unite after they subjected us to so much abuse over the last four years. I wish Democrats would discuss policies instead of attacking people personally. The discussion needs to be about policy differences instead of who is a nicer person Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

[Svensson]

There is a lot going on. I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective and even consider that they may have been wrong about some of their beliefs. I posted a video yesterday where the President is denouncing white supremacy and condemning the violence in Charlottesville. The video totally destroys the narrative of the media and liberals that President Trump said "The white supremacist were fine people." Nobody is going to acknowledge the video. I would welcome a good discussion with someone who can be objective.

I understand the shock and disappointment the liberals felt when President Trump won the election. They were all set to welcome the first female President. The progressives felt it was time for a female President it was very important to them and what happened America elected the most narcissistic, misogynist, alpha male, who exuded toxic masculinity. The liberals must have been gutted. They must have felt that their hopes for the future had taken three giant steps backward and the media told them that Donald Trump the buffoonish pop icon would never win. I have been following politics closely all my adult life and I have never seen media coverage so weird as the mainstream media covered election night 2016. A person watching would have thought a President had died rather than been elected.

Every time a Republican is elected he is confronted with the same accusations of racism, sexism. and xenophobia. The Democrat's political platform is centered around identity politics. However, when Donald Trump took office the standard accusations were supersized. Donald Trump was pure evil. He was Hitler reborn. The same people who set in front of their televisions and enjoyed Donald Trump the television personality suddenly believed "the Donald" was the antichrist. The celebrities who attended parties thrown by "the Donald" and the politicians who gladly took his money suddenly felt he was a treasonous Russian spy and the people who voted for him were deplorable knuckle-dragging racists. The resistance movement started before the man even took office. Trump's policies did not matter. The fact that Donald Trump was a reformed ex-Democrat and a very moderate Republican who the Democrats could have worked with made no difference talks of impeachment started before he took office.

Other Presidents have had to endure unfair criticism by the media and public. However, nothing compares to the level of pure hatred President Trump and his supporters have had to put up with. The bias media has beat our President up with lies and misrepresenting things he said. The President never called immigrants "animals." He said MS-13 gang members were animals. He never said, "white supremacists were fine people." He never suggested that people "should drink Clorox." He asked the doctors iF some kind of disinfectant can be used as a treatment. The media went crazy when President Trump went to a Church and held up the Bible. Somehow the media failed to report on why the President went to the Church and the significance of the Church. The Church was one of the oldest Churches in American history. Our country's founders attended the Church. Rioters burned the Church that is why the President went there. I could go on and on with examples. The media called President Trump supporters Nazis and compared ANTIFA the terrorist, "anti-fascist organization" that ironically suppress speech they do not agree with by using intimidation and violence just like Hitler's fascist Brown Coats, who attacked Trump supporters, woman, elderly, crippled, to "Marines storming the beach at Normandy" There has been violence on both sides but it is the Democrats and media that have divided the country created the environment for the violence that America has been subjected to over the last four years. An unhealthy precedent was set in 2016 of disrespecting the office of the President and condoning violent rioting as an acceptable form of political protest.

How does it end and we begin to heal as a country? The Democrats need to stop all the hateful rhetoric and gain some perspective. The President is not the antichrist. It is ok to criticize some of his policies but give him some credit for his accomplishments. President Trump is a businessman and I am sure like all rich and powerful people he has blurred the lines of right and wrong in his business deals. However, for four years President Trump has been investigated and the government special council's investigation was not limited to Russia. The lawyers basically investigated his entire life and nothing criminal was leaked out and it would have been leaked. The New York Times leaked his tax returns and all they came up with was a big surprise, he did not pay enough taxes and took advantage of tax laws. I am sure that Donald Trump the businessman was corrupt. The rich and powerful all are. The average person who identifies as a Democrat needs to understand that the Bidens, Clintons, Obamas, are all corrupt too and stop holding President Trump to a standard they are not willing to hold Democrat candidates to. Speaking as a conservative, the hypocrisy of the liberals is extremely frustrating. For four years they refused to accept the results of the 2016 elections. The Democrat establishment accused the President of colluding with Russia when there was no evidence of the Trump campaign working with Russia regardless if Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 election. The Democrats may feel that President Trump is a Russian operative but they need to quietly let the Trump supporters vent their frustration and challenge the results of the 2020 election. There is far more evidence connecting Biden to China than there was evidence connecting Trump to Russia and there is evidence of election corruption. Most of the cases that have been dismissed by the courts have been dismissed because the Judge ruled the plaintiff had no standing to bring the case. The evidence never was allowed to be presented. The President's legal team has been allowed to present their evidence to the State Legislators. Perhaps Trump haters could take the time and watch a hearing where the evidence is being presented before they dismiss Trump supporters as a "conspiracy theorist."

Understanding each other is the key to uniting the country. Democrats need to be objective and have some self-awareness. It makes Trump supporters upset when liberals want us to shut up accept the results of the election and unite after they subjected us to so much abuse over the last four years. I wish Democrats would discuss policies instead of attacking people personally. The discussion needs to be about policy differences instead of who is a nicer person Donald Trump or Joe Biden.

Sorry, you're just repeating statements that have been debunked higher up this thread.

where is the evidence that Trump has grown the economy by 4.8%. Or did you mean 4.8% cumulatively?

"I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective"

Trust me, I have looked at his policies objectively and I found most of them wanting. Some of them are mediocre successes which he needed to lie about and some are downright insulting to the average person's intelligence and dangerous for the American democracy. The damage he has done can not be easily undone if at all. Putin won. And it took only 5 years....

But the reason that I am so particular about Trump statements on the economy is this: A president is accountable to the people. When it comes to judging his performance after four years, an accurate record needs to be examined. This will be the basis for re-election or resigning him to a one-term president. Trump was the first president to use lying and propaganda as a strategic tool to cover up his staggering incompetence and self-serving ignorance and such a strategy must never be allowed. His centre piece is his economic performace so I would like you to state where you got the information of his economic performance from? I am suggesting that it is all a lie and I have provided my data above. Where's yours? I begin to suspect that it doesn't exist and that you are ok with propagating talking points with no evidence to back them up.

Cheers.

[celee]

Sorry, you're just repeating statements that have been debunked higher up this thread.

where is the evidence that Trump has grown the economy by 4.8%. Or did you mean 4.8% cumulatively?

"I feel a lot of people have invested so much energy hating our President that they are unable to be objective"

Trust me, I have looked at his policies objectively and I found most of them wanting. Some of them are mediocre successes which he needed to lie about and some are downright insulting to the average person's intelligence and dangerous for the American democracy. The damage he has done can not be easily undone if at all. Putin won. And it took only 5 years....

But the reason that I am so particular about Trump statements on the economy is this: A president is accountable to the people. When it comes to judging his performance after four years, an accurate record needs to be examined. This will be the basis for re-election or resigning him to a one-term president. Trump was the first president to use lying and propaganda as a strategic tool to cover up his staggering incompetence and self-serving ignorance and such a strategy must never be allowed. His centre piece is his economic performace so I would like you to state where you got the information of his economic performance from? I am suggesting that it is all a lie and I have provided my data above. Where's yours? I begin to suspect that it doesn't exist and that you are ok with propagating talking points with no evidence to back them up.

Cheers.

You presented no evidence Obama ever reached 3% economic growth. Good for you for your willingness to discuss policy and your objectivity. I presented no real evidence in my most recent post I was discussing why the country is so divided. Sadly not all of Trump's detractors are so objective as you.

Cheers

[celee]

Economy And Jobs

President Donald J. Trump Achievements


Under President Trump’s leadership, Congress passed historic tax cuts and relief for hard-working Americans. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act:

• Is the first major tax reform signed in 30 years.
• Provided tax relief for 82% of middle-class families.
• Doubled the Child Tax Credit proving an additional $1,000 per child in tax relief for working parents.
• Nearly doubled the standard deduction, a change that simplified the tax filing process for millions of Americans.
• Cut taxes for small businesses by 20%, providing $415 billion in tax relief for small business owners.
• Alleviated the tax burden on over 500 companies. who used those savings to fund bonuses, wage increases for 4.8 million workers.
• Spurred new investments into the American economy, after it was passed businesses invested $482 billion into new American projects.
• Repealed Obamacare’s burdensome individual mandate.
• Made U.S. companies competitive on the world stage, lowering the corporate tax rate from one of the highest in the industrialized world (35%) to 21%.

U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth has soared under President Trump, topping 3% in 4 quarters under his administration.

• 2018 annual GDP growth was 2.9%
• In the first quarter of 2019 GDP growth was 3.1%

President Trump is unleashing economic growth and jobs. Since his election, the Trump administration’s pro-growth policies have generated 6 million new jobs, the unemployment rate has fallen to its lowest point in 50 years, and wages have grown at more than 3% for 10 months in a row.

• The manufacturing industry created nearly half a million new jobs.
• 625,000 new construction jobs have been created since President Trump took office.
• Hispanic, Asian and African American unemployment rates have all reached record lows under President Trump.
• There are more than a million more job openings than unemployed persons in the U.S.

President Trump signed an executive order that expanded federally funded apprenticeship programs and on-the-job training, to provide an alternative for those looking to gain in demand skills that lack the resources to attend four-year universities.

• The executive order set in motion a new process that makes it easier for businesses to create and scale apprenticeship programs, providing many more Americans access to an affordable education that leads to a well-paying job.
• The Workforce Development Advisory Council established by President Trump’s executive order has already created on-the-job training opportunities for 6.5 million Americans.

The Trump administration prioritized the economic empowerment of women at home and across the globe.

• The Trump Administration launched the Women’s Global Development and Prosperity (W-GDP) Initiative, the first-ever whole-of-government approach focused on advancing women’s full and free participation in the global economy and allocated $50 million for the fund