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  • PostmoderniZm

    Originally posted by mariab View Post
    Originally Posted by Archaic :
    The basic definition of 'Postmodern' is: "Of or relating to Art, Architecture, or Literature that reacts against earlier Modernist principles, as by reintroducing Traditional or Classical elements of style or by carrying Modernist styles or practices to extremes."

    (Maria) Great definition, but for visual arts/sculpture/architecture. For lit and drama, “postmodern“ means seen with ironic distance, subversive, self-reflective (such as containing playful, ironic comments about the genre's own rules and structure).
    Hi Maria. How are you?

    The definition of "postmodern" isn't really different among the various different branches of Art, whether one is speaking of Literature, Painting, etc. It's just that the definition of "postmodern" is very postmodern itself- amorphous, nebulous, and contradictory!

    In my previous definition, saying that in postmodernism "modernist principles and practices are carried to extremes" is just a more polite way of saying they are exaggerated, subverted and mocked!

    I was trying to give a very brief & simple definition before, (to have mercy on poor Jordan and those poor souls who come to Pub Talk to enjoy a quiet pint) but here's a more detailed definition you might enjoy:

    Postmodernism: A general and wide-ranging term which is applied to literature, art, philosophy, architecture, fiction, cultural and literary criticism, etc. Postmodernism is largely a reaction to the assumed certainty of scientific or "objective" efforts to explain reality. In essence it stems from a recognition that reality is not simply mirrored in the human understanding of it, but rather is constructed even as the mind tries to understand its own particular and personal reality. For this reason, postmodernism is highly skeptical of explanations which claim to be valid for all groups, cultures, traditions, or races, and instead focuses on the relative truths of each person.

    In the postmodern understanding, interpretation is everything; reality only comes into being through our interpretations of what the world means to us individually. Postmodernism relies on concrete experience over abstract principles, knowing always that the outcome of one's own experience will necessarily be fallible and relative, rather than certain and universal.

    Postmodernism is "post" because it is denies the existence of any ultimate principles, and it lacks the optimistic belief in the existence of a scientific, philosophical, or religious truth which will explain everything for everybody - a characteristic of the so-called "modern" mind.

    The paradox of the postmodern position is that, in placing all principles under the scrutiny of its skepticism, it must realize that even its own principles are not beyond questioning. "

    >> OK, people, class dismissed, no homework... jello-shots for everybody!!!

    Cheers,
    Archaic

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Archaic View Post
      Hi Maria. How are you?
      The definition of "postmodern" isn't really different among the various different branches of Art, whether one is speaking of Literature, Painting, etc. It's just that the definition of "postmodern" is very postmodern itself- amorphous, nebulous, and contradictory!
      Hi Archaic, I hope you're fine and that you went a bit outdoors and to that fun concert in Seattle. I'm fine, except for too much work and no snow since January. :-( Tonight I'm going out on town, but I'm coming back early, to keep completing a darn French article on deadline for publication. (What fun.)
      I most definitely didn't mean to criticize your excellent definition of “postmodernism“. Still, the definition of the term is slightly different between the visual arts and lit/drama, simply because the artistic genres in question vary quite a bit among themselves. Also David (in his post #261) was correct to differentiate between “postmodernism“ and “postmodernity“, which is an altogether different concept and belongs to sociology, not art. (Quoting David here.)
      To be quite honest, the first time I was really able to grasp the concept of “postmodernism“ is via BtVS, which is a casebook example of a post-modernist approach to tons of different things.

      Originally posted by Archaic View Post
      In my previous definition, saying that in postmodernism "modernist principles and practices are carried to extremes" is just a more polite way of saying they are exaggerated, subverted and mocked!
      Oh, OK.
      Last edited by mariab; 03-05-2011, 07:10 AM.
      Best regards,
      Maria

      Comment


      • C.D. my friend, as always, I loved both of your jokes in his thread. And John Ruffels' post (as usual) was priceless. And cute. As I've totally been there in what he's describing. ;-)
        By the by, in snowparcs it's considered a courtship ritual when a male freestyler approaches a female freestyler and spits in front of her feet. It has even happened that a male freestyler was checking me out and I felt compelled to spit at my feet – without any real need whatsoever to spit before the guy was there. Yes, there's elegance in snowboarding. (There is elegance, at least when in the air or on an obstacle.)

        Quote C.D.:
        You have to remember that Tom lives in Oklahoma where a man with a sheep under each arm is called a pimp.

        Ouch, I've heard that one about rural Greece too. (But I was raised in Athens, not in rural Greece, and I know of no sheeps.)
        This joke translates pretty well for Hollywood too, just substitute “sheep“ with “gerbil“.
        (I can't believe I just said this.)
        Last edited by mariab; 03-05-2011, 07:53 AM.
        Best regards,
        Maria

        Comment


        • Whew! Finally caught up on this thread! Reading 10 pages of this thread at one time is rather dizzying

          Originally posted by DVV View Post
          Hi Bunny you're right about Postmodernism, but I was alluding to Postmodernity, which is an altogether different concept and belongs, to make it short, to sociology - not art.
          And my poor self being awfully reactionary, I use it in a pejorative sense.Bestest
          Hi David. Oh, yes, all those rather tedious French philosophers with their theories about the postindustrial age.
          Well, I'm very glad to hear that you speak pejoratively of Postmodernity- of course you realize it's just another lie of the Bourgeoisie!!

          Guys, let's not talk about Postmodernism and Postmodernity any more- we need to be very disciplined and just get past it.

          I've been Postpostmodern for a while anyway, just wasn't ready to come out about it yet.


          Hmmm...I wonder when we will stop being labeled Post- and start being labeled Pre-Something Else?


          Archaic

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Archaic View Post
            I've been Postpostmodern for a while anyway, just wasn't ready to come out about it yet.
            The only way I would adhere to Postmodernism would be in my typical generation Xer's general sense of disillusionment.

            Originally posted by Archaic View Post
            Hmmm...I wonder when we will stop being labeled Post- and start being labeled Pre-SomethingElse?
            In Ripperological terms I could be considered a pre-BernerStreetian, as I firmly believe that this much neglected sub-field of Ripperology is going to become HUGE in the near future. It certainly has started receiving serious attention as of lately, which makes me very happy.
            There are also some potentially ugly situations related to the label “pre-“: “prepubescent“, “pre-menopausal“. Ouch...
            Best regards,
            Maria

            Comment


            • Maria, disillusionment's been done.
              If you want to rebel, you're gonna have to be HAPPY.

              When I was wondering what we could be "Pre-", I was thinking in terms of all of us.

              I have a feeling that the "Pre-" label is only handed out by those who come after. Not sure why...maybe it helps them to believe they have actually achieved something?

              Best regards,
              Archaic
              Last edited by Archaic; 03-05-2011, 08:37 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Archaic View Post
                Maria, disillusionment's been done. If you want to rebel, you're gonna have to be HAPPY.
                Hi Archaic,
                it's been my experience that the more disillusioned one is, the more deeply one will experience happiness – especially since they'll be fully aware of the precarity of it.
                By the by, with your coming from the Seattle area and your first hand experience of grunge and all, I'm sure you'd be the first to admit that Pearl Jam are pretty happy people in their private life?

                Originally posted by Archaic View Post
                I have a feeling that the "Pre-" label is only handed out by those who come after. Maybe it helps them to believe they have actually achieved something
                You're sooo correct!
                By the way, with the “BernerStreetian“ label I wasn't entirely correct. It would be more accurate to say that there are 2 current “Proto-BernerStreetians“ out there, which resulted into the “formation“ of 2 “early BernerStreetians“ (Lynn Cates and myself). In the strict sense of the term, Gavin Bromley and Edoardo Zinna can be considered as “Pre-BernerStreetians“. Just compare this to the Pre-Raphaelites...
                I love the smell of hairsplitting, first thing on a saturday morning.
                Last edited by mariab; 03-05-2011, 09:08 AM.
                Best regards,
                Maria

                Comment


                • Originally posted by mariab View Post
                  I love the smell of hairsplitting, first thing on a saturday morning.
                  Whereas a Hobbit might love the smell of hare-spitting.

                  Mike
                  huh?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by The Good Michael View Post
                    Whereas a Hobbit might love the smell of hare-spitting.
                    And I cat owner might hate the smell of hair spitting.
                    Gotta run, darn shops close too early...
                    Best regards,
                    Maria

                    Comment


                    • To give you guys an update (if anyone cares) I was told she is dating another waiter at this place. This sucks and this dude is at least 10 years older than her. More on this later
                      Jordan

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ChainzCooper View Post
                        To give you guys an update (if anyone cares) I was told she is dating another waiter at this place. This sucks and this dude is at least 10 years older than her. More on this later
                        Jordan
                        Hi Jordan.

                        We care, that's why we're all here milling around on your thread, hoping for an update.

                        Sorry you have met with disappointment in the short run, but you still have a chance to make friends with this young lady, and you never know what the future may hold, right?

                        Keep your chin up, you have a lot going for you.

                        Best regards,
                        Archaic

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Archaic View Post
                          Hi Jordan.

                          We care, that's why we're all here milling around on your thread, hoping for an update.

                          Sorry you have met with disappointment in the short run, but you still have a chance to make friends with this young lady, and you never know what the future may hold, right?

                          Keep your chin up, you have a lot going for you.

                          Best regards,
                          Archaic
                          Thanks for your encouraging words. I really hope this isn't the case and the person who told me this was mistaken. Because this guy is older than me and I'm six years older than she is. I guess it doesn't really matter though but this doesn't pass the smell test
                          Jordan

                          Comment


                          • It's always good to get the 411 before getting all wrapped up. People might be together, but be discreet about it.
                            Best regards,
                            Maria

                            Comment


                            • Yeah, this is an odd match for sure. When I was told I was like 'Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?' I even asked again like 10 minutes later if he was sure. He was pretty confident in what he told me. We'll see what happens
                              Jordan

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ChainzCooper View Post
                                Yeah, this is an odd match for sure. When I was told I was like 'Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?' I even asked again like 10 minutes later if he was sure. He was pretty confident in what he told me. We'll see what happens
                                Jordan
                                Hi Chainz
                                Who cares? she ain't maried to the guy. Or maybe the person who told you that is pulling your leg. Besides, she liked you enough to give you her email. Follow my previous advice and your in like Flynn.

                                But you have to at least try. You can't catch a fish unless you cast the line.
                                Good luck-keep us informed.
                                "Is all that we see or seem
                                but a dream within a dream?"

                                -Edgar Allan Poe


                                "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                                quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                                -Frederick G. Abberline

                                Comment

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