A6 Rebooted

[Herlock Sholmes]

Similarly to you HS re. the Wallace case I can't be 100 % sure that my strong belief in Hanratty's innocence is correct. The Wallace case intrigues me and although I have read a few books about it over the years I know next to nothing compared to the vast majority who post on the Wallace threads. For what it may be worth I tend to sway towards Wallace's innocence. Curiously enough for the last year or more I happen to spend most Tuesday afternoons at my friend Steve's, we are both passionate about music. Steve lives in Menlove Gardens West.

On a Tuesday too. I’m glad that you didn’t say that he lived at Menlove Gardens East SH I think it’s fair to say that most favour Wallace’s innocence and he might have been. I strongly favour his guilt but perhaps I’ve been guilty of being a little over-confident in past debates, especially as we had one poster who you could have left in a room with The Pope, The Dalai Lama and Gandhi and after less than 5 minutes they’d have had him on the floor kicking the life out of him. The wind-up merchant of the century. It’s difficult to stay balanced when faced with someone like that.

I don’t know what the split is on here in terms of who goes for guilt and who goes for innocent? I believe that Caz goes for guilty for example (she and I are both go favour a guilty Wallace) The A6 is a fascinating case though SH. I’m going away for a few days on Monday, when I get back I’m thinking of getting the Harriman book although I’m slightly wary of the science-heavy side of it.

[Sherlock Houses]

As a comparison, I can’t be sure that my opinion on the Wallace case is correct but I’m far more confident of Wallace’s guilt than I am of Hanratty’s.

Similarly to you HS re. the Wallace case I can't be 100 % sure that my strong belief in Hanratty's innocence is correct. The Wallace case intrigues me and although I have read a few books about it over the years I know next to nothing compared to the vast majority who post on the Wallace threads. For what it may be worth I tend to sway towards Wallace's innocence. Curiously enough for the last year or more I happen to spend most Tuesday afternoons at my friend Steve's, we are both passionate about music. Steve lives in Menlove Gardens West.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well I just finished the Stickler book and I’ve been thinking about how I view the case in general. It’s certainly an intriguing one - but was Hanratty guilty? I certainly couldn’t come down on either side with absolute confidence but I’d have to swing the balance in favour of guilty. There’s no point on me giving the arguments for guilt because you all know them far better than I do. But…for me there is definitely room for doubt. Plenty that is unanswered. Maybe if I read the other new book my opinion might skew in the other direction and I wouldn’t bet any money on my getting the verdict correct. As a comparison, I can’t be sure that my opinion on the Wallace case is correct but I’m far more confident of Wallace’s guilt than I am of Hanratty’s.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What’s weird about the Stickler book is that when I searched ‘Usher’ I only got 2 responses.

‘It is almost certain that at some time he deposited his suitcase with William Usher at the left luggage office at Lime Street station, but neither occurred on Tuesday, 22 August.’

and

‘It could have been on this occasion that he spoke to Kempt and Usher.’

So if these are the only two mentions that means he doesn’t mention Usher’s withered hand or even give him any introduction. He just drops his name into the story twice and moves on.

I’ve just come to this:

“He now claimed that he had never mentioned the word ‘arm’ – his solicitor must have written it down incorrectly – but instead he had said ‘hand’.”

No mention of Usher though.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Yeah it's William Usher - withered hand; Peter Stringer - false arm.

What’s weird about the Stickler book is that when I searched ‘Usher’ I only got 2 responses.

‘It is almost certain that at some time he deposited his suitcase with William Usher at the left luggage office at Lime Street station, but neither occurred on Tuesday, 22 August.’

and

‘It could have been on this occasion that he spoke to Kempt and Usher.’

So if these are the only two mentions that means he doesn’t mention Usher’s withered hand or even give him any introduction. He just drops his name into the story twice and moves on.

[NickB]

Yeah it's William Usher - withered hand; Peter Stringer - false arm.

[Herlock Sholmes]

This is very remiss of Stickier for not mentioning Usher's hand.

On p191 of his book Paul Foot clarifies the matter about the withered hand or arm.....

Thanks SH, I’ll have a look in Foot’s book when I get chance as I don’t have it with me at the moment. My Stickler book is the Kindle version.

[Sherlock Houses]

Stickler only mentions Usher twice (as William) but he never mentions his hand.

This is very remiss of Stickier for not mentioning Usher's hand.

On p191 of his book Paul Foot clarifies the matter about the withered hand or arm.....

[Herlock Sholmes]

I feel sure you won't mind me pointing out a couple of error here HS. Significant ones nonetheless...

Not at all HS. Of course, any errors that I make are entirely deliberate and are placed there to check that you’re paying attention.

Firstly, Hanratty returned to London from Liverpool not on the Monday but on the Friday morning [as he claimed] or the Saturday morning [according to Dixie France].

I haven’t a clue why I put Monday because I’ve just read the section of Stickler’s book that deals with it so I have no excuse.

Secondly, Hanratty claimed to his defence team that he handed his case to a male attendant with a 'withered or turned hand' not one with a 'withered arm'. Such a left luggage office attendant existed, a person by the name of Peter Usher. Usher had two fingers missing from his left hand.

Thanks for pointing this out SH. Stickler says:

“In addition, he claimed that when he arrived in the city, he deposited his suitcase at Lime Street railway station and the man who took it from him had a withered arm.”

He also said:

“It is almost certain that at some time he deposited his suitcase with William Usher at the left luggage office at Lime Street station, but neither occurred on Tuesday, 22 August.”

Incidentally the boxing match was held on the Thursday evening [Aug 24th] at the Liverpool Stadium between Howard Winstone and Aryee Jackson. Hanratty tried unsuccessfully to gain admission to watch the fight.

Stickler only mentions Usher twice (as William) but he never mentions his hand.

[Sherlock Houses]

Hanratty admitted that he stayed at The Vienna on the Monday and that he went to Paddington station on the Tuesday morning before realising that trains didn’t run to Liverpool from there so he took a taxi over to Euston. He then claimed to have caught either the 10.55 or 12.55 (he’d previously said 11.55) and arrived in Liverpool where he stayed with friends, near the Bull Ring, until Thursday before returning to London on the Monday. He refused to name these friends (I want to make a comment and ask about that in a separate post)

He claimed that he deposited his case at Lime Street station with an attendant with a withered arm but he retrieved it from a different man. He also said that he went to see the film The Guns Of Navarone and at some point to a stadium to watch a boxing match ‘between a man named Winton and a coloured man’.

I feel sure you won't mind me pointing out a couple of error here HS. Significant ones nonetheless...

Firstly, Hanratty returned to London from Liverpool not on the Monday but on the Friday morning [as he claimed] or the Saturday morning [according to Dixie France].
Secondly, Hanratty claimed to his defence team that he handed his case to a male attendant with a 'withered or turned hand' not one with a 'withered arm'. Such a left luggage office attendant existed, a person by the name of Peter Usher. Usher had two fingers missing from his left hand.

Incidentally the boxing match was held on the Thursday evening [Aug 24th] at the Liverpool Stadium between Howard Winstone and Aryee Jackson. Hanratty tried unsuccessfully to gain admission to watch the fight.

[NickB]

Yes the police did question people at the Regent garage, which shows this part of Valerie's account was not simply overlooked.

I have the impression Acott was uncomfortable when giving evidence. But you can only read about his testimony in the newspaper reports. A few years ago a poster here applied to see the trial transcripts and was told two days were 'missing'. They happened to be the two days Acott gave evidence!

[Herlock Sholmes]

NickB covered this area some years back and is probably best placed to respond. The attendant at the Regent garage was unable to remember the car as described since he was operating a busy site near to Heathrow Airport. No CCTV in these days obviously, so that line of enquiry proved a dead end.

Hirons saw the car in a police garage and claimed that a couple of features on the vehicle chimed with his memory of it. But it appears these features were recognised after the fact and did not comprise part of his initial statement.

Thanks Cobalt. It looks like the Regent Attendant doesn’t get a mention in the Stickler book.

[cobalt]

NickB covered this area some years back and is probably best placed to respond. The attendant at the Regent garage was unable to remember the car as described since he was operating a busy site near to Heathrow Airport. No CCTV in these days obviously, so that line of enquiry proved a dead end.

Hirons saw the car in a police garage and claimed that a couple of features on the vehicle chimed with his memory of it. But it appears these features were recognised after the fact and did not comprise part of his initial statement.

[Herlock Sholmes]

I know your directing your question to Cobalt HS but if I may put my two Pennyworth in .
There seems to have been very little police activity immediately after the 22 nd of August. In areas where you would expect major presence.It appears for example there was no presence at the Old station inn after the event, in my view an interviewing of punters in the pub for a week between say 8 and 10 pm , to see if a memory may be jogged ,something overheard, anything on those lines that might help their inquiry.
houses in Marsh Lane to see if there was vehicle activity in the field across the way.
Oxleys cottages ,top of Deadmanās hill, 3 farm cottages, someone may have heard gun shots!which obviously would set the time of the killing.
unfortunately chief superintendent Acott, placed great store by Valerie Storie as a witness.so much so he allowed his responsibilities to be side lined by his feelings of compassion for Valerie.
And yet however ( and I have never had a satisfactory answer to this question) Why did Acott insist on bringing Mr.Hirons into the mix ,a late night petrol pump attendant at the Shell station at Kingsbury roundabout, when he ,Acott knew full well Valerie had insisted the 2 gallon of petrol was bought from the Regent garage on the A4 by London airport? she even elaborated on remembering it was that filling station ,yet Acott ignored this completely , why?

Always good to get your views Moste. I misunderstood your post on first reading because I thought it not unusual that Hiron’s would naturally be considered after coming forward but your phrase ‘into the mix’ meant ‘appeared at the trial’ where he was only a help to the Defence. We know that Hiron’s failed to ID Hanratty and I assume that no one came forward from the Regent Garage?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Foot and Woffinden say she was sure that it was Hanratty but unsure about the date, making it sound likely. In fact it was the other way round. Dinwoodie's evidence was that Hanratty only 'resembled' the man and that she was 'certain' the man visited the shop on Monday. This would lead the jury to conclude that it must have been someone else.

There were two main reasons she gave for being certain it was the Monday. First, her daughter Barbara was with her; second, Cowley's brother John was not with her. On the Tuesday John Cowley was there until 6.00 or 6.30 (when his brother David - the owner- arrived) and said while he was there no-one came in asking for directions. John Cowley was there when Barbara visited the shop on Tuesday: "On the way back from town I called in at the shop about a quarter to five and Mr Cowley's brother was there with Gran".

Mrs D also said it was Monday when she discussed it with the driver, Harding, who said that when he called Barbara "was putting up pop bottles on the shelf" which points to Monday but is not conclusive in itself.

I don't know about the portable radio but suggest he might have put it in a station lock-up.

It’s a problem that appears beyond a solution Nick. We have Nudds and the France family placing Hanratty very firmly in London on the day that Olive D said that she saw the man who resembled Hanratty. It’s interesting that Hanratty said that he asked for directions to either Carlton or Talbot Street when Olive said that the man had asked for directions to Tarleton Street. It’s difficult to accept that this was just a lucky guess on Hanratty’s part. He was arrested 7 weeks after the murder after all which meant that she was thinking back two months.