Madeleine McCann

[Sunny Delight]

The only evidence we have that 'checks' took place comes from the Tapas group. Some of the workers at the complex remembered seeing parents leaving the table, others had no recollection of this happening. The intervals between these checks, which apart from the one undertaken by Matthew Oldfield at 9.30 were exclusively on the parents' own children, was anything from 15 minutes to one hour depending on the witness. Given that a fair amount of alcohol was being consumed by the group then, even with the best of intentions, the figure of one hour would probably be nearer the mark.

When Oldfield was questioned in the UK he gave a detailed account of how his own apartment was locked and he had to enter by use of a key when checking on his children. Yet when Kate McCann told him at 9.30pm that the her sliding patio door was unlocked he did not seem in the slightest surprised or offer any kind of comment.

Not all of the Tapas group were at the table from 8.30pm until 10pm. O'Brien and Tanner were required at various times to stay in their apartment since one of the children had been physically sick. This was an unfortunate feature of the holiday; a number of the group fell ill on separate evenings.

To turn to the grim prospect of disposing of a child's body, this remains a serious stumbling block whatever your line of argument. To do so without a car and local knowledge would be extremely difficult and so far as we can gather the Tapas group had neither of these. A local with access to transport has an advantage there without a doubt but the chances of a body remaining undiscovered for many years later are very slim.

Alcohol consumption and duration between checks is a red herring. Define a fair amount? And how that amount then can be compared to the amount that table had?

It was not for Matthew Oldfield to question the McCanns about their parental skills.

So there was a bug going around? Hardly unusual with young kids.

Yes the argument in regards disposing of the body are freakish and on demented. Stored her in a refrigerator then transported 3 weeks later via car in front of the worlds media to an unknown location. So if the chances of a local with transport and knowledge of the area disposing of a body still unfound years later is very slim what chance did the McCanns have?

[Sunny Delight]

Russell O'Brien's Sunday evening check inside the Oldfield apartment is not just unknown to Matthew Oldfield, but also to Oldfield's wife Rachel. Yet O'Brien clearly remembers doing so and described using their key to enter the apartment. Here is Rachel Oldfield's account:

'And on the Thursday night you know it worked slightly differently and there was much more movement and much more checking than there had been on other nights for some strange reason, I mean not for anything particular but just that's the way it happened, erm yeah and erm up until that night, each family had only checked on their own children.'

This is something more than mere forgetfulness. Someone is lying here, and presumably for a reason.

Never presume is the key is it not. When one presumes then it can lead down blind alleys. Inconsistency actually gives the impression of truth. At the end of the day if the whole group concocted a story and cover up they didn't do a very good job.

[FrankO]

This is something more than mere forgetfulness. Someone is lying here, and presumably for a reason.

Still, how was lying going to help the McCanns trying to cover up something?

[cobalt]

Russell O'Brien's Sunday evening check inside the Oldfield apartment is not just unknown to Matthew Oldfield, but also to Oldfield's wife Rachel. Yet O'Brien clearly remembers doing so and described using their key to enter the apartment. Here is Rachel Oldfield's account:

'And on the Thursday night you know it worked slightly differently and there was much more movement and much more checking than there had been on other nights for some strange reason, I mean not for anything particular but just that's the way it happened, erm yeah and erm up until that night, each family had only checked on their own children.'

This is something more than mere forgetfulness. Someone is lying here, and presumably for a reason.

[cobalt]

Here’s an example of the problems faced by the PJ in establishing a clear picture of events. These rogatory interviews were almost a year after the disappearance, so the Tapas group had ample time to clarify their version of events.

In his rogatory interview Matthew Oldfield offers the following in regard to his 9.30pm visit to check on the McCann apartment.

‘And there was me and Russell as well, so, erm, you know, it seemed, at the time, a very reasonable thing to do, even though it was the first time that we'd certainly done it.’

But not ‘the first time’ according to his companion at the time, Russell O’Brien who remembered:

‘I’m aware that initially we would only check on our own rooms but on occasions we often listened at other apartment doors or windows, and made checks on some visits.
On Sunday I recall I checked Kate and Gerry’s apartment as well as Rachael and Matt’s. I had taken Matt’s keys and I believe that their door was deadlocked the same as ours and that I would have needed to turn the key two times. We kept our shutters down, and the patio door was closed I am not sure whether theirs was the same. I recall that Kate and Gerry’s apartment was accessed by the patios door which was left closed and unlocked.'

That word ‘initially’ in the opening paragraph seems misplaced since the group arrived on the Saturday and by the Sunday O’Brien seems to have access to at least two other apartments. And Oldfield, one of the recipients of O’Brien’s checks, seems to have been unaware they were happening! And same as Oldfield, nowhere does O'Brien ever report broaching with the McCann's the wisdom of leaving apartments unlocked.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The only evidence we have that 'checks' took place comes from the Tapas group. Some of the workers at the complex remembered seeing parents leaving the table, others had no recollection of this happening.

There are, therefore, no grounds for suspicion, unless you believe that the parents who were seen leaving the table did so for a purpose other than that stated by them, and also that they were all part of a conspiracy to cover up the truth about what happened to Madeleine McCann.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... the chances of a body remaining undiscovered for many years later are very slim.

Louise Kerton's body still has not been discovered and she disappeared nearly two years earlier than Madeleine.

[cobalt]

The only evidence we have that 'checks' took place comes from the Tapas group. Some of the workers at the complex remembered seeing parents leaving the table, others had no recollection of this happening. The intervals between these checks, which apart from the one undertaken by Matthew Oldfield at 9.30 were exclusively on the parents' own children, was anything from 15 minutes to one hour depending on the witness. Given that a fair amount of alcohol was being consumed by the group then, even with the best of intentions, the figure of one hour would probably be nearer the mark.

When Oldfield was questioned in the UK he gave a detailed account of how his own apartment was locked and he had to enter by use of a key when checking on his children. Yet when Kate McCann told him at 9.30pm that the her sliding patio door was unlocked he did not seem in the slightest surprised or offer any kind of comment.

Not all of the Tapas group were at the table from 8.30pm until 10pm. O'Brien and Tanner were required at various times to stay in their apartment since one of the children had been physically sick. This was an unfortunate feature of the holiday; a number of the group fell ill on separate evenings.

To turn to the grim prospect of disposing of a child's body, this remains a serious stumbling block whatever your line of argument. To do so without a car and local knowledge would be extremely difficult and so far as we can gather the Tapas group had neither of these. A local with access to transport has an advantage there without a doubt but the chances of a body remaining undiscovered for many years later are very slim.

[FrankO]

The two locked doors were not seen as a problem since it could be claimed an intruder entered and left through the window. It was only when that possibility was discounted by the PJ that the two locked doors created the problem you have identified.

Is it a fact that the McCanns initially told the police that both the front and patio/back door were locked? Or did they just not say initially that they left the patio door unlocked? In any case, could you let me know where I can find these initial statements? (To be clear, I mean statements before the ones they made on May 4th.)

The first reference I can find mentioning an unlocked patio door was in Oldfield's statement of 4th May, the day following the disappearance. Strangely, Gerry McCann does not mention this unlocked patio door in a statement he made the same day.

According to mccannpjfiles.co.uk Gerry McCann did mention that. Where can I find the version you use?

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Well, PI, I believe those suppositions you proffer are misguided and wrong. Therein lies the impasse at the heart of all of this. Operation Grange impeding Portuguese law courts and police procedures don't dampen cries of conspiracy either...

Which suppositions of mine?

[Fantomas]

Why should people bother to read Amaral's book, when he alleges that Madeleine's parents found her dead some time between 8.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. and during that time disposed of her body without anyone noticing them do it?

How could the McCanns and their friends have been checking that Madeleine was all right when she was no longer in the apartment and how could they have been able to make those checks as well as dispose of Madeleine's body?

How could they have been dining - the palpable evidence of their neglect of Madeleine - for one and a half hours and at the same time been both hatching a conspiracy to cover up Madeleine's death and concealing or disposing of Madeleine's body?

And don't tell me that the Tapas Seven lied that the McCanns were present at the dining table when they were not; they dined in the open and their absence would have been noticed by others.

Well, PI, I believe those suppositions you proffer are misguided and wrong. Therein lies the impasse at the heart of all of this. Operation Grange impeding Portuguese law courts and police procedures don't dampen cries of conspiracy either...

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Amaral and the PJ have been portrayed as slovenly 1970s UK sitcom stereotypes of foreigners - a deliberate move by whatever PR machine wished it. However, the MSM obliged and the BBC/ITV and Sky did nothing to dissuade the British public that the PJ were/are drunken incompetents. This is not the case if people bother to read Amaral's book - where, via good policing, the proposed circumstances, the conclusion that MM is sadly now deceased and who the main culprits most probably are, is convincing.

Why should people bother to read Amaral's book, when he alleges that Madeleine's parents found her dead some time between 8.30 p.m. and 10 p.m. and during that time disposed of her body without anyone noticing them do it?

How could the McCanns and their friends have been checking that Madeleine was all right when she was no longer in the apartment and how could they have been able to make those checks as well as dispose of Madeleine's body?

How could they have been dining - the palpable evidence of their neglect of Madeleine - for one and a half hours and at the same time been both hatching a conspiracy to cover up Madeleine's death and concealing or disposing of Madeleine's body?

And don't tell me that the Tapas Seven lied that the McCanns were present at the dining table when they were not; they dined in the open and their absence would have been noticed by others.

[Fantomas]

The PJ must have been investigated properties nearby the complex. Every dodgy character living nearby- which included Murrell it seems- was surely scrutinised. And that dragnet must have extended to the area of the Smith sighting and any surrounding properties. The PJ might have missed something, but they understood as well as any of us that a child had been removed and that must have left some sort of trail.

They drew a blank. They failed to find that trail. But whether that meant their working theory was misplaced is another matter altogether. Anyone who reads through all the statements made by the Tapas group, as the PJ did, becomes aware that the full truth is not being offered up.

Amaral and the PJ have been portrayed as slovenly 1970s UK sitcom stereotypes of foreigners - a deliberate move by whatever PR machine wished it. However, the MSM obliged and the BBC/ITV and Sky did nothing to dissuade the British public that the PJ were/are drunken incompetents. This is not the case if people bother to read Amaral's book - where, via good policing, the proposed circumstances, the conclusion that MM is sadly now deceased and who the main culprits most probably are, is convincing.

[DJA]

[mpriestnall]

Least you didn't put 'Muppet'.