Madeleine McCann

[Abby Normal]

its "only" because people make him out to be a beater of an innocent mother of a missing child to get a confession. amd again why werent any of the those cops charged and the mother cleared?

correction.. meant to say why werent any of those cops convicted.

[Sunny Delight]

Bingo caz. When my kids were little we did everything together on vacation including dinner.I wouldn’t think of leaving them alone because I liked being with them more than doing anything else and I would worry if I left them anywhere without me or my wife, especially in a foreign country! There’s plenty of time before and after your kids are little to party without them for effs sake.

and yes again her behavior upon finding her gone is weird to me. Especially since just that morning Maddie had told her they had awoken and cried and asked why didn’t she come? After that, wouldn’t first thought be she awoke looking for them again and wandered outside??? Even more so that they left the doors unlocked??
And leave infant babies alone again ???

I would at least scooped the babies up and brought them with me. I just don’t get the behavior any of it regardless of if they had anything to to with it.

You keep saying this but you don't know what you would have done because thankfully you have never been in that situation. Panic will will make you do irrational things. A state of panic if you believe your child has just been abducted is beyond the realms of any imagination and you would surely not be thinking straight or in any rational way. God knows how any of us would react

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The Kiszko miscarriage remains one of the most serious ever in UK judicial history. But I will make a couple of points.

The first comes from the mother of one of those girls who helped convict Kiszko on the false allegation that he had earlier exposed himself to her daughter. The girls, there were four of them, later admitted they had done this 'for a laugh.' At the time the mother denounced all 'monsters' like Kiszko.

''Sheila Buckley, whose daughter Maxine played a major part in securing Kiszko's conviction, criticised the police for not arresting Kiszko earlier and told the Manchester Evening News that '... children are a lot safer, now this monster has been put away'.^[10] She also demanded that Kiszko be publicly hanged.''

It's not recorded what she thought should be done to useless parents like herself.

The second point is that Lesley Molseed never returned from her visit to the shops; she was picked up in a car. There is evidence in the Cipriano case which indicates that the girl did return from the shops with the items that she had been sent for.

I agree.

It may be that Joćo Cipriano was guilty whereas Stefan Kiszko was obviously innocent.

The girls' evidence was as you indicate despicable, but as I am sure you are aware, the police knew that Kiszko could not have committed the murder.

[cobalt]

The Kiszko miscarriage remains one of the most serious ever in UK judicial history. But I will make a couple of points.

The first comes from the mother of one of those girls who helped convict Kiszko on the false allegation that he had earlier exposed himself to her daughter. The girls, there were four of them, later admitted they had done this 'for a laugh.' At the time the mother denounced all 'monsters' like Kiszko.

''Sheila Buckley, whose daughter Maxine played a major part in securing Kiszko's conviction, criticised the police for not arresting Kiszko earlier and told the Manchester Evening News that '... children are a lot safer, now this monster has been put away'.^[10] She also demanded that Kiszko be publicly hanged.''

It's not recorded what she thought should be done to useless parents like herself.

The second point is that Lesley Molseed never returned from her visit to the shops; she was picked up in a car. There is evidence in the Cipriano case which indicates that the girl did return from the shops with the items that she had been sent for.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... why werent any of the those cops charged...?

Three officers–Leonel Marques, Paulo Pereira Cristóvćo and Paulo Marques Bom – were charged with inflicting torture on one of the defendants.

[Abby Normal]

Since when is a Police Chief falsifying documents "only" falsifying documents? If cops in Texas falsified document during the Kennedy Assassination inquiry be brushed aside so readily?

its "only" because people make him out to be a beater of an innocent mother of a missing child to get a confession. amd again why werent any of the those cops charged and the mother cleared?

[Abby Normal]

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

if its so obvious they beat a confession out of her:
how can you explain her still being convicted then?
why were the cops aquitted? how come they werent charged with assault/police brutality?
the uncle confessed too..they beat confessions out of both the disappeared girls mother and uncle?
Is portugal really that bad...sounds like something out of a nightmare russian gulog or something.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

Thank you, Roger, for drawing our attention to the fact that Amaral alleged in both the Cipriani and McCann cases that the accused relatives put the girl in a refrigerator.

That single fact should be enough to cause anyone who suspected the McCanns to think again.



To my mind, the following paragraph from the Wikipedia page rings alarm bells:


Joana Cipriano, aged eight, was last seen at around 8:00pm on 12 August 2004 after being sent to buy milk and a tin of tuna from a local store. A neighbour saw her around 200 meters from her house, walking back from the store. Her mother, Leonor Cipriano, launched a local campaign to find her daughter, distributing posters around the neighbourhood.

<sup>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Joana_Cipriano

Compare this:</sup>

On the early afternoon of Sunday 5 October 1975, Lesley was sent by her mother to a local shop on nearby Ansdell Road to buy bread and air-freshener...
Lesley was last seen by witnesses in Stiups Lane, a pedestrian alleyway leading towards the shop.

When she failed to return home, her concerned mother sent her siblings out to look for her. Her stepfather also joined the search^[4] but by 3:00 p.m., with no sign of her, and no evidence that she had arrived at the shops nor been encountered since, the parents contacted West Yorkshire Police. A search around Rochdale and the adjacent M62 motorway was immediately begun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

Stefan Kiszko was framed for the murder of Lesley Molseed and the officers who framed him were acquitted, so please let us hear no more of the acquittal of bent police officers by a jury of their peers proving their innocence.

I have read all manner of attacks here on the characters of Madeleine's parents, usually about their having allegedly lied about whether a window or door was left unlocked or found to be unlocked or which door they went through.

I am bound to say that I find it all extraordinarily petty in comparison with the McCanns' chief accuser having lied that a woman who had obviously been physically beaten by his officers had actually inflicted the injuries on herself.

And by the way, unlike Amaral, the McCanns do not have criminal records.

[cobalt]

When I read statements like ‘a monster of Breuckner’s magnitude’ then it is like living in tabloid land. Around 90% of young children are killed at the hands of their parents or close family; the ‘monsters’ only make up a small percentage. And if they are indeed ‘monsters’ it is amazing that they walk unrecognised amongst us for so long. Amaral came from a tough part of town as a boy and I don’t think he missed much.

The McCanns’ admission of child neglect, which was extended to the Tapas group, undermined their credibility from the outset. I have never believed that they left their doors unlocked, and I don’t remember any of the other Tapas group saying they did this. I am not even sure they even left their children unattended since one member of the group was reportedly ‘sick’ each evening on a serial basis. Except the day of the disappearance when Russell O’Brien went back to deal with a child who had taken ‘sick.’ O’Brien is the member of the Tapas group who prefers not to be photographed.

An admission of child neglect might be better, in terms of what follows, than a more serious charge.

[rjpalmer]

Since when is a Police Chief falsifying documents "only" falsifying documents? If cops in Texas falsified document during the Kennedy Assassination inquiry be brushed aside so readily?

[rjpalmer]

hi cobalt
to add... three police officers in the cipriano case were acquitted and only amaral and another cop were convicted, only of falsifying documents. Amaral wasnt even there during the alleged beating of the mother.

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Please see my replies below.

Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.


Is that not to the McCanns' credit and Amaral's discredit?


Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt.


Perhaps he should have waited until the body turned up before accusing the missing girl's parents.


He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.


Can you name a monster of Brueckner's magnitude who was in the vicinity of the McCanns' apartment when Madeleine went missing?


Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated.


Amaral defamed the McCanns.

The McCanns did not defame Amaral.


Amaral’s book .. In Portugal ... was a best seller.


Is that to the credit of the Portuguese public?

No doubt articles, books, and television programmes accusing the Chamberlains were popular in Australia.

So what?

[Abby Normal]

The tabloid phrase ‘Disgraced Detective’ is routine concerning Amaral, but nowhere have I ever read the phrase ‘Disgraced Parents’ in relation to the McCanns. This is worth noting since Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.

If Amaral had wrongly identified two sets of parents as guilty of their daughters’ deaths and been proved wrong, then he would indeed deserve the soubriquet ‘Disgraced Detective.’ But the Cipriano verdict, despite allegations of forced confessions, was never so far as I am aware overturned. Since no one has ever been convicted of the Madeleine McCann murder then the jury (which I understand PI does not like as an arbiter of justice) must remain out on his abilities. Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt. He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.

Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated. They lost both cases, in Portugal and at the European Court. Amaral’s book is still not distributed within the UK, the one place the McCanns have received very high level political support. In Portugal it was a best seller.

hi cobalt
to add... three police officers in the cipriano case were acquitted and only amaral and another cop were convicted, only of falsifying documents. Amaral wasnt even there during the alleged beating of the mother. and yes she served her murder conviction.
Also, as you mentioned all the other suspects i cant see how people can cay the pj only focused on the mccans.
And as i mentioned before the portuguese court judges threw out the mccan case, who were suing him to try and block his book, ruling in his favor. oh btw kate also wrote a book about her disappearance.

[erobitha]

Do you not find it farfetched that doctors would sedate their own two- and three-years-old children?

I find it far-fetched that both parents leave three children completely unattended whilst they socialise with friends, but it still happened.

[cobalt]

The tabloid phrase ‘Disgraced Detective’ is routine concerning Amaral, but nowhere have I ever read the phrase ‘Disgraced Parents’ in relation to the McCanns. This is worth noting since Amaral has always denied the accusations laid against him, whereas the McCanns have openly admitted their child neglect.

If Amaral had wrongly identified two sets of parents as guilty of their daughters’ deaths and been proved wrong, then he would indeed deserve the soubriquet ‘Disgraced Detective.’ But the Cipriano verdict, despite allegations of forced confessions, was never so far as I am aware overturned. Since no one has ever been convicted of the Madeleine McCann murder then the jury (which I understand PI does not like as an arbiter of justice) must remain out on his abilities. Convictions without a body are very difficult to prosecute so perhaps Mr. Amaral deserves the benefit of the doubt. He believes that Breuckner will follow Murat, Monteiro, Hewlitt, a bus driver at the Ocean Centre, a couple of paedophile window cleaners and Hans von Aesch into the dustbin of Madeleine McCann ‘prime suspects.’ I suspect he is right.

Amaral has never attempted to stop the MCanns speaking out against him. In contrast, the McCanns have spent a great deal of money attempting to legally block his version of what he investigated. They lost both cases, in Portugal and at the European Court. Amaral’s book is still not distributed within the UK, the one place the McCanns have received very high level political support. In Portugal it was a best seller.