Madeleine McCann

[FrankO]

Also, anyone watching all the parents dining together could have tried their luck without knowing how many children each set of parents had. Finding an only child, or two siblings at most, in one of their apartments, would seem to be far preferable to dealing with three, but in the event it wasn't a problem for the abductor because they were so very young and all fast asleep.

Love,

Caz
X

Can't argue with you there, Caz. However abducted her, if that's what happened, he found at least the 2 little ones sound asleep. Either that or he gave them something to sleep tight.

All the best,
Frank

[caz]

Quite possibly, Darryll. What struck me while reading up on the case is that after a day or two, the McCanns had adopted a daily, erm, I would say 'system', but for fear of it being overrated I'd better use the word 'routine', which would have been quite plain to any interested person(s) close to the Ocean Club. So, somebody with inside information may very well have been involved.

Also, anyone watching all the parents dining together could have tried their luck without knowing how many children each set of parents had. Finding an only child, or two siblings at most, in one of their apartments, would seem to be far preferable to dealing with three, but in the event it wasn't a problem for the abductor because they were so very young and all fast asleep.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

It's not character assassination to suggest the McCanns were the persons involved in the disappearance of their daughter. They accomplished that themselves by their statements and actions around the time of her disappearance. Gerry McCann claimed the Tapas group employed a 'system' they had used before for checking on children. The word 'system' is misleading since it suggests a tried and tested method known to the general public: the Tapas 'system' for checking on unattended children was unheard of before the disappearance and has never surfaced thereafter. It remains unique. It is as much a 'system' as stopping for a picnic on the hard shoulder of a motorway then pleading victimhood when a car crashes into your table. To paraphrase Mr. McCann, 'We would not have done that if we had known a car was going to crash into us. But a senior traffic policeman (un named) told us it was well within the bounds of responsible picnicking.''

Leaving an apartment unlocked is an invitation to any thief or worse. And even a locked patio door is no obstacle to an alert 4 year old child who by instinct watches everything and learns. I've even had a domestic cat which could leap up on door handles and open living room doors. The Tapas 'system' was designed to fail which is why I doubt it was ever employed in the first place. One idiotic bunch of parents I could just about believe: but not four of them engaging in a ludicrous game of musical chairs. The PJ presumably reached a similar conclusion.

However similar to the cases of Luard and Wallace quoted by PI, the respectable image of the Tapas group gave them an advantage. Like Luard they were able to call upon highly influential support, something Wallace lacked. Here is a quote from DK which reveals the class bias surrounding the case, one which assumes all low paid workers are crypto criminals and thus by implication, professionals are persons to be trusted.

'I have always been of the opinion that the answer to Madeline's disappearance is right there at the Ocean Club. IE Someone at the club, whether it was a paying guest in the same apartment block snatched her, or someone who worked there did, like a janitor. But more likely somebody within that complex a waiter or such like, at one of the bars say, was in contact with another person giving info out on who was out where, and at what time. Possibly sharing their inside knowledge in exchange for drugs.'

His first sentence is hard to disagree with.

It does strike me as plausible that whoever took Madeleine had some kind of heads-up that there would be an unattended child in that particular apartment at the time. It's also possible she might still have been alive today if her abductor(s) had known they would find three children there, giving them three times the risk of not getting their chosen victim out without disturbing either her or the younger two. It might not have dawned on an abductor that any parent would leave three under fives on their own, in which case it would have been a stroke of luck to find them all sleeping so soundly.

Love,

Caz
X

[Sunny Delight]

Not that you're saying it's your theory, Jay, but I've always understood that it was the open window to cause her to think she was abducted, although she also searched the appartment before she raised the alarm. Whether one believes her or not is another story, of course.

Exactly. She states quite clearly that the door of the children's bedroom was open a good deal more than she expected but assumed it had been Matt Oldfield when he did his check. As she closed the door over it slammed shut. She opened the door to check the kids and saw Madeleine missing from her bed. She initially thought maybe she had gone into her and Gerrys bed but when she checked she wasn't there either. She stated this was when the first pangs of panic kicked in. She checked other rooms and went back to the children's bedroom and saw the curtains swaying alerting her to the open window. Then all hell broke loose as in a complete panic she sprints to the restaurant screaming Madeleine is missing someone has taken her.

To my mind someone entered through that bedroom window- yes it could be opened from the outside that has been proven categorically and then left via the bedroom door and out the front into the car park. From there take your pick of getaway vehicle, walking to an unknown location via an unknown route or the man seen by the Smiths taking thar route to an unknown location.

[rjpalmer]

I don't put any stock in the comment "if the Germans had any real evidence against Brückner, they would have charged him already."

He's already cooling his heels in prison and won't be out until 2026. The German prosecutor probably feels he can be as meticulous as he needs to be.

Maybe the investigation against Brückner will fall through, but that remains to be seen.

[FrankO]

Hence, why Kate jumped to abduction because she knew it was highly unlikely Maddie just woke up.

Not that you're saying it's your theory, Jay, but I've always understood that it was the open window to cause her to think she was abducted, although she also searched the appartment before she raised the alarm. Whether one believes her or not is another story, of course.

[Abby Normal]

its "only" because people make him out to be a beater of an innocent mother of a missing child to get a confession. amd again why werent any of the those cops charged and the mother cleared?

correction.. meant to say why werent any of those cops convicted.

[Sunny Delight]

Bingo caz. When my kids were little we did everything together on vacation including dinner.I wouldn’t think of leaving them alone because I liked being with them more than doing anything else and I would worry if I left them anywhere without me or my wife, especially in a foreign country! There’s plenty of time before and after your kids are little to party without them for effs sake.

and yes again her behavior upon finding her gone is weird to me. Especially since just that morning Maddie had told her they had awoken and cried and asked why didn’t she come? After that, wouldn’t first thought be she awoke looking for them again and wandered outside??? Even more so that they left the doors unlocked??
And leave infant babies alone again ???

I would at least scooped the babies up and brought them with me. I just don’t get the behavior any of it regardless of if they had anything to to with it.

You keep saying this but you don't know what you would have done because thankfully you have never been in that situation. Panic will will make you do irrational things. A state of panic if you believe your child has just been abducted is beyond the realms of any imagination and you would surely not be thinking straight or in any rational way. God knows how any of us would react

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

The Kiszko miscarriage remains one of the most serious ever in UK judicial history. But I will make a couple of points.

The first comes from the mother of one of those girls who helped convict Kiszko on the false allegation that he had earlier exposed himself to her daughter. The girls, there were four of them, later admitted they had done this 'for a laugh.' At the time the mother denounced all 'monsters' like Kiszko.

''Sheila Buckley, whose daughter Maxine played a major part in securing Kiszko's conviction, criticised the police for not arresting Kiszko earlier and told the Manchester Evening News that '... children are a lot safer, now this monster has been put away'.^[10] She also demanded that Kiszko be publicly hanged.''

It's not recorded what she thought should be done to useless parents like herself.

The second point is that Lesley Molseed never returned from her visit to the shops; she was picked up in a car. There is evidence in the Cipriano case which indicates that the girl did return from the shops with the items that she had been sent for.

I agree.

It may be that João Cipriano was guilty whereas Stefan Kiszko was obviously innocent.

The girls' evidence was as you indicate despicable, but as I am sure you are aware, the police knew that Kiszko could not have committed the murder.

[cobalt]

The Kiszko miscarriage remains one of the most serious ever in UK judicial history. But I will make a couple of points.

The first comes from the mother of one of those girls who helped convict Kiszko on the false allegation that he had earlier exposed himself to her daughter. The girls, there were four of them, later admitted they had done this 'for a laugh.' At the time the mother denounced all 'monsters' like Kiszko.

''Sheila Buckley, whose daughter Maxine played a major part in securing Kiszko's conviction, criticised the police for not arresting Kiszko earlier and told the Manchester Evening News that '... children are a lot safer, now this monster has been put away'.^[10] She also demanded that Kiszko be publicly hanged.''

It's not recorded what she thought should be done to useless parents like herself.

The second point is that Lesley Molseed never returned from her visit to the shops; she was picked up in a car. There is evidence in the Cipriano case which indicates that the girl did return from the shops with the items that she had been sent for.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

... why werent any of the those cops charged...?

Three officers–Leonel Marques, Paulo Pereira Cristóvão and Paulo Marques Bom – were charged with inflicting torture on one of the defendants.

[Abby Normal]

Since when is a Police Chief falsifying documents "only" falsifying documents? If cops in Texas falsified document during the Kennedy Assassination inquiry be brushed aside so readily?

its "only" because people make him out to be a beater of an innocent mother of a missing child to get a confession. amd again why werent any of the those cops charged and the mother cleared?

[Abby Normal]

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

if its so obvious they beat a confession out of her:
how can you explain her still being convicted then?
why were the cops aquitted? how come they werent charged with assault/police brutality?
the uncle confessed too..they beat confessions out of both the disappeared girls mother and uncle?
Is portugal really that bad...sounds like something out of a nightmare russian gulog or something.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Come on, Abbey, you can do better than this. The documents he was convicted of falsifying had to do with covering up the police brutality. So, of course the officers were acquitted. If Amaral didn't believe they beat a confession out of her, why did he falsify the documents? Nothing that someone states during torture/abuse can be trusted.

The PJ claimed she jumped (or fell) down a set of stairs while in police custody. If you and Cobalt believe that, I'm selling a bridge in Brookyln that you might be interested in.





The point is that this girl could have been alive & trafficked. But we'll never know for certain because the confessions were flawed and may well have been coerced, and they never looked. From what I read, the 'evidence' in the pigsty was worthless, but there is so much bogus information coming out of Portugal it's hard to know.

Thank you, Roger, for drawing our attention to the fact that Amaral alleged in both the Cipriani and McCann cases that the accused relatives put the girl in a refrigerator.

That single fact should be enough to cause anyone who suspected the McCanns to think again.



To my mind, the following paragraph from the Wikipedia page rings alarm bells:


Joana Cipriano, aged eight, was last seen at around 8:00pm on 12 August 2004 after being sent to buy milk and a tin of tuna from a local store. A neighbour saw her around 200 meters from her house, walking back from the store. Her mother, Leonor Cipriano, launched a local campaign to find her daughter, distributing posters around the neighbourhood.

<sup>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Joana_Cipriano

Compare this:</sup>

On the early afternoon of Sunday 5 October 1975, Lesley was sent by her mother to a local shop on nearby Ansdell Road to buy bread and air-freshener...
Lesley was last seen by witnesses in Stiups Lane, a pedestrian alleyway leading towards the shop.

When she failed to return home, her concerned mother sent her siblings out to look for her. Her stepfather also joined the search^[4] but by 3:00 p.m., with no sign of her, and no evidence that she had arrived at the shops nor been encountered since, the parents contacted West Yorkshire Police. A search around Rochdale and the adjacent M62 motorway was immediately begun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lesley_Molseed

Stefan Kiszko was framed for the murder of Lesley Molseed and the officers who framed him were acquitted, so please let us hear no more of the acquittal of bent police officers by a jury of their peers proving their innocence.

I have read all manner of attacks here on the characters of Madeleine's parents, usually about their having allegedly lied about whether a window or door was left unlocked or found to be unlocked or which door they went through.

I am bound to say that I find it all extraordinarily petty in comparison with the McCanns' chief accuser having lied that a woman who had obviously been physically beaten by his officers had actually inflicted the injuries on herself.

And by the way, unlike Amaral, the McCanns do not have criminal records.

[cobalt]

When I read statements like ‘a monster of Breuckner’s magnitude’ then it is like living in tabloid land. Around 90% of young children are killed at the hands of their parents or close family; the ‘monsters’ only make up a small percentage. And if they are indeed ‘monsters’ it is amazing that they walk unrecognised amongst us for so long. Amaral came from a tough part of town as a boy and I don’t think he missed much.

The McCanns’ admission of child neglect, which was extended to the Tapas group, undermined their credibility from the outset. I have never believed that they left their doors unlocked, and I don’t remember any of the other Tapas group saying they did this. I am not even sure they even left their children unattended since one member of the group was reportedly ‘sick’ each evening on a serial basis. Except the day of the disappearance when Russell O’Brien went back to deal with a child who had taken ‘sick.’ O’Brien is the member of the Tapas group who prefers not to be photographed.

An admission of child neglect might be better, in terms of what follows, than a more serious charge.