JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

So you're claiming a Conspiracy that was able to plant fake ID's in Oswald's wallet, forge purchase records, bank records, photographic evidence, witness testimony and ballistics evidence was too stupid to plant the correct rifle? And that they compounded the stupidity by letting multiple newsmen take still and motion pictures of the wrong rifle?

Who's running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry and Curly?

[Herlock Sholmes]

So you're claiming a Conspiracy that was able to plant fake ID's in Oswald's wallet, forge purchase records, bank records, photographic evidence, witness testimony and ballistics evidence was too stupid to plant the correct rifle? And that they compounded the stupidity by letting multiple newsmen take still and motion pictures of the wrong rifle?

Who's running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry and Curly?

You have to notice Fiver. No actual discussion or debate. No analysis or assessment. Nothing. Just a repeated posting of things that have been explained and rebutted a thousand times. We are at the stage where one poster is simply seeing something online and as long as it ‘confirms’ his viewpoint he’s assuming it to have been true. This person berates and disbelieves a police officer who, if he’d bothered to read, simply saw the rifle on the floor between piles of boxes from a few feet away. And, as everyone agreed, the Mannlicher and the Mauser are easily mistaken. So he made a simple errror and was honest enough to admit it. Fishy though thinks that this is ‘dishonesty.’ To admit to an easily understandable error is apparently a sign of dishonesty.

If Weitzman had been talking to Mark Lane…then I’d have been suspicious.

And this is a man that believes Beverley Oliver, Ricky White and Roger Craig are truthful, instead of the unhinged liars that they undoubtedly all are. It’s also from the person who is the last man on planet Earth that still thinks that the Knight/Sickert theory is real. Always a conspiracy note.

[Fiver]

And, as everyone agreed, the Mannlicher and the Mauser are easily mistaken. So he made a simple errror and was honest enough to admit it. Fishy though thinks that this is ‘dishonesty.’ To admit to an easily understandable error is apparently a sign of dishonesty.

Some of these posters seem to believe that humans are incapable of error unless they are part of a Conspiracy, since they treat every error as proof of a Conspiracy.

Imagine if people lived like that.

The junk mail spelled my name wrong - it must be a Conspiracy. I told the waiter no pickles on my sandwich - it must be a Conspiracy. That driver didn't signal when they changed lanes - it must be a Conspiracy.

Yet when it comes to JFK that's exactly how they behave. The date was miswritten - it must be a Conspiracy. Witnesses disagreed on the color of a jacket - it must be a Conspiracy. Someone misidentified a photo - it must be a Conspiracy.

[FISHY1118]

So you're claiming a Conspiracy that was able to plant fake ID's in Oswald's wallet, forge purchase records, bank records, photographic evidence, witness testimony and ballistics evidence was too stupid to plant the correct rifle? And that they compounded the stupidity by letting multiple newsmen take still and motion pictures of the wrong rifle?

Who's running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry and Curly?

3500 and you've learnt little.

Once you accept the Autopsy photos are fake as we have shown you all along, then you can move on .

The warren commission lied , you just won't accept it . .

The debate side of this thread is over ,only the "evidence " is on show . The squabblers can argue amongst themselves.

More to come.

[GBinOz]

You have to notice Fiver. No actual discussion or debate. No analysis or assessment. Nothing. Just a repeated posting of things that have been explained and rebutted a thousand times.

And this is a man that believes Beverley Oliver, Ricky White and Roger Craig are truthful, instead of the unhinged liars that they undoubtedly all are.

Let's address an easy one.



The Warren Commission Report Chapter 3 Page 81:
The rifle is 40.2 inches long and weighs 8 pounds.





Where is the rear open sight illustrated in the Klein's advertisement?




Bearing in mind your accusation towards Fishy in your post 3240, "You, and others, believe in conspiracy which is wholly reliant on calling people liars. Of yelling fake, fraud, forgery and he was in on it", can you proffer your thousand rebuttals with an explanation as to who is lying?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Some of these posters seem to believe that humans are incapable of error unless they are part of a Conspiracy, since they treat every error as proof of a Conspiracy.

Imagine if people lived like that.

The junk mail spelled my name wrong - it must be a Conspiracy. I told the waiter no pickles on my sandwich - it must be a Conspiracy. That driver didn't signal when they changed lanes - it must be a Conspiracy.

Yet when it comes to JFK that's exactly how they behave. The date was miswritten - it must be a Conspiracy. Witnesses disagreed on the color of a jacket - it must be a Conspiracy. Someone misidentified a photo - it must be a Conspiracy.

Look at the mistakes/discrepancies/conflicting testimony/timing issues etc involved in the ripper case which no one puts down to conspiracy. Then look at the assassination. Vastly more complex. Some much testimony, evidence, witness technical stuff. Of course there are going to be discrepancies. And in a stressful situation after an incident that took seconds it’s hardly surprising that mistakes were made. So why is everything seen as indicative of conspiracy. It’s because that’s what some want to see. A conspiracy theorist would rather trust someone standing on a pavement yards away, probably in the process of ducking, scared s***less, to get an accurate picture of the head wound than they would film footage which clearly, unequivocal shows no wound to the back of the head. They assume a shot from the front so they have to dismiss evidence to the contrary. No matter insane it is.

Another perfect example was in the autopsy room when someone said “who’s in charge here?” and a senior military man said “I am.”

It’s immediately taken as meaning that this person controlled and limited the inquest. The evidence tells us that wasn’t the case. I know that at least one witness believed that it was Admiral Burkley who replied. Clearly he was just talking about the overall situation. Bugliosi went into the autopsy in minute detail. No one influenced the three pathologists. They were under pressure…yes. The family were constantly calling and asking how long?…yes. But no one controlled or limited the autopsy. It’s a fallacy.

Another ignored point (among hundreds) is about those pathologists. Boswell had no experience of dealing with gun shot fatalities and Humes had only limited experience. Ideal for a conspiracy you might think. So why did Humes, of his own bat, call in Finck due to his experience of gun shot wounds. Doesn’t sound like the actions of someone intent on covering up.

[Herlock Sholmes]

3500 and you've learnt little.

Once you accept the Autopsy photos are fake as we have shown you all along, then you can move on .

The warren commission lied , you just won't accept it . .

The debate side of this thread is over ,only the "evidence " is on show . The squabblers can argue amongst themselves.

More to come.

You haven’t shown that the autopsy photos are fake. You just keep saying it. Repeating something doesn’t make it true.

You aren’t debating. You cutting and pasting and then making one or two sentence comments. If that’s all that you can manage. Fine.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Let's address an easy one.



The Warren Commission Report Chapter 3 Page 81:
The rifle is 40.2 inches long and weighs 8 pounds.





Where is the rear open sight illustrated in the Klein's advertisement?




Bearing in mind your accusation towards Fishy in your post 3240, "You, and others, believe in conspiracy which is wholly reliant on calling people liars. Of yelling fake, fraud, forgery and he was in on it", can you proffer your thousand rebuttals with an explanation as to who is lying?

You know that an explanation has been made in regard to what was actually available after the order was made.

Here’s a second suggestion. How can you know that Oswald had one rifle in the photograph and then acquired another? Why does it have to be the same rifle?

These are quibbles.

Oswald had a rifle…confirmed by Marina and Ruth Paine. After the assassination it was gone. It was the rifle that he carried to work that day. And he certainly didn’t shot Kennedy with a pack of non-existent curtain rods.

[FISHY1118]

You haven’t shown that the autopsy photos are fake. You just keep saying it. Repeating something doesn’t make it true.

You aren’t debating. You cutting and pasting and then making one or two sentence comments. If that’s all that you can manage. Fine.

They are fake . Medical doctors testimony are in direct conflict to what the warren commission provided.

I dont know who's head that is with that tiny hole ,but it ain't jfks . That by now is a well established fact . The experts at parkland hospital on the day all agree.

[Patrick Differ]

The only Radiologist involved in Xrays was a Dr Ebersole. He could not explain some of the metal fragment discrepancies from 1963 compared to 1968. It brought up the question of whether the xrays could be easily double exposed and there are xrays using scissors and other objects used to show how easy it was to do. The fragments in question were in the back of the skull. ( Not a magic bullet)

There is also a discrepancy in the 4 bullet shells found by Tippit. From a revolver that did not eject the cartridge.

One thing I looked at was Zapruder Frames 245. The first hit and frame 313 the head shot. At 18.3 frames per second there was a 4.5 second spread. An expert could have pulled that off but with angles and car movement who really knows if Oswald had that capability.

The Autopsy sketch of Kennedys head wound does not match the Zapruder film or description of the Parkland Doctors. Maybe it's a bad sketch? The film shows a massive explosion in the front of his head and matter exiting up and perpendicular to the head in a perfect 90 degree angle. It's not clear why this bullet reacted so differently from the magic bullet which also hit bone.

The CIA at the time was in the business of murdering leaders and hired the MOB to teach them how to do it. I think this is why many Americans are suspicious. They for whatever reason still smell a rat.

[GBinOz]

You know that an explanation has been made in regard to what was actually available after the order was made.

Do you mean the "what if" speculation that perhaps the ordered rifle was out of stock and he was sent a different model with the sling studs on the side? That would mean that the backyard photos are fake.

Here’s a second suggestion. How can you know that Oswald had one rifle in the photograph and then acquired another? Why does it have to be the same rifle?

Well that puts all the WC theories in doubt with more "what if" speculation substituting for actual evidence.

These are quibbles.

Oswald had a rifle…confirmed by Marina and Ruth Paine. After the assassination it was gone. It was the rifle that he carried to work that day. And he certainly didn’t shot Kennedy with a pack of non-existent curtain rods.

According to official government investigations, including the Warren Commission, Lee Harvey Oswald stored the 6.5 mm caliber Carcano rifle used to shoot U.S. President John F. Kennedy in Ruth Paine's garage, unbeknownst to her and her husband, Michael Paine.

Marina also testified that Lee told her that he had used the rifle in an attempt to assassinate retired U.S. Army Edwin Walker. The rifle used in that attack was a 30 calibre.

Warren Commission Report Chapter 3 Page 81:
The minimum length broken down is 34.8 inches, the length of the wooden stock.

The only two people who saw the package testified that it was too short to contain a rifle.

[FISHY1118]

So we can add yet another fact to the acts of staggering stupidity committed by our high level conspirators - they left the wrong rifle on the 6th floor.

Too silly for words.

EDDIE BARKER (CBS NEWS) -- "What kind of gun did you think it was?"

MR. WEITZMAN -- "To my sorrow, I looked at it and it looked like a
Mauser, which I said it was. But I said the wrong one; because just at
a glance, I saw the Mauser action....and, I don't know, it just came
out as words it was a German Mauser. Which it wasn't. It's an Italian
type gun. But from a glance, it's hard to describe; and that's all I
saw, was at a glance. I was mistaken. And it was proven that my
statement was a mistake; but it was an honest mistake."

Anyone that believes anything that Roger Craig says really does have a problem. This is the guy who said that they brought a rifle down from the roof. This is the guy who saw Oswald get into a Nash Rambler in Dealey Plaza nearly 10 minutes after he’d left and we know that he’d got on a bus.

I’ll repeat….why are so many conspiracy theory witnesses either barking mad or liars?

Compare the pair Everyone . Multiple witnesses said it was a Mauser . More ''Actual Evidence''

“We were in the northwest corner of the sixth floor when Deputy Boone and myself spotted the rifle about the same time. This rifle was a 7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a 4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it. The file was between some boxes near the stairway. The time the rifle was found was 1:22 pm.”

- Affidavit of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman, Dallas Police; November 23, 1963

[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1050/0*Hl0wERW_JR0_NgIn[/IMG]
No, you see, it wasn’t a Mauser after all, the Air Force veteran and WWII POW later decided. Seymour Weitzman recanted his sworn statement. It was, instead, a Mannlicher-Carcano. The one ordered by that young man now in custody, the brooding Lee H. Oswald. Yes, that one.

So was there a Mauser found by authorities in the Texas School Book Depository less than an hour after shots rang out in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963? Or was it a simple error on the part of Weitzman et al?

When Weitzman testified before the Warren Commission, he detailed how the rifle was hidden. “It was covered with boxes. It was well protected as far as the naked eye because I would venture to say eight or nine of us stumbled over that gun a couple of times before we thoroughly searched the building.” Weitzman told the FBI that day the weapon was a Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Boone thought it was a Mauser, and said as much in his own affidavit:


[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1050/0*Hl57j3lVzqsCKtA7[/IMG]


Boone said chief of homicide Captain Fritz thought it was a Mauser. Dallas authorities told the press the weapon was a Mauser. Walter Cronkite told the world it was a “German-built Mauser with a sniper scope that was used to kill President Kennedy.” District Attorney Henry Wade said the weapon was a Mauser in the formal press conference in the early hours of November 23.

When it was discovered Lee Oswald used an alias to order a Mannlicher Carcano rifle from a catalog, the Mauser quickly morphed into that particular weapon. Boone and Weitzman backed down from insisting it was a Mauser. Only Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, who was on Boone’s heels when the rifle was discovered on the sixth floor, continued to assert it was a Mauser, even stating that stamped on the barrel was “7.65 Mauser.”

And from November 23 onward, the Mannlicher Carcano — and only the Mannlicher Carcano — was the weapon used to assassinate the president…at the hands of Texas School Book Depository clerk Lee Oswald. And nothing was said of the Mauser again.

[Herlock Sholmes]

According to official government investigations, including the Warren Commission, Lee Harvey Oswald stored the 6.5 mm caliber Carcano rifle used to shoot U.S. President John F. Kennedy in Ruth Paine's garage, unbeknownst to her and her husband, Michael Paine.

Marina also testified that Lee told her that he had used the rifle in an attempt to assassinate retired U.S. Army Edwin Walker. The rifle used in that attack was a 30 calibre.

Warren Commission Report Chapter 3 Page 81:
The minimum length broken down is 34.8 inches, the length of the wooden stock.

The only two people who saw the package testified that it was too short to contain a rifle.

Yes it was a pack of vanishing curtain rods George. You can continue to believe that but I’ll stay on planet Earth thanks.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Compare the pair Everyone . Multiple witnesses said it was a Mauser . More ''Actual Evidence''

“We were in the northwest corner of the sixth floor when Deputy Boone and myself spotted the rifle about the same time. This rifle was a 7.65 Mauser bolt action equipped with a 4/18 scope, a thick leather brownish-black sling on it. The file was between some boxes near the stairway. The time the rifle was found was 1:22 pm.”

- Affidavit of Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman, Dallas Police; November 23, 1963

[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1050/0*Hl0wERW_JR0_NgIn[/IMG]
No, you see, it wasn’t a Mauser after all, the Air Force veteran and WWII POW later decided. Seymour Weitzman recanted his sworn statement. It was, instead, a Mannlicher-Carcano. The one ordered by that young man now in custody, the brooding Lee H. Oswald. Yes, that one.

So was there a Mauser found by authorities in the Texas School Book Depository less than an hour after shots rang out in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963? Or was it a simple error on the part of Weitzman et al?

When Weitzman testified before the Warren Commission, he detailed how the rifle was hidden. “It was covered with boxes. It was well protected as far as the naked eye because I would venture to say eight or nine of us stumbled over that gun a couple of times before we thoroughly searched the building.” Weitzman told the FBI that day the weapon was a Mauser. Deputy Sheriff Boone thought it was a Mauser, and said as much in his own affidavit:


[IMG]https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:1050/0*Hl57j3lVzqsCKtA7[/IMG]


Boone said chief of homicide Captain Fritz thought it was a Mauser. Dallas authorities told the press the weapon was a Mauser. Walter Cronkite told the world it was a “German-built Mauser with a sniper scope that was used to kill President Kennedy.” District Attorney Henry Wade said the weapon was a Mauser in the formal press conference in the early hours of November 23.

When it was discovered Lee Oswald used an alias to order a Mannlicher Carcano rifle from a catalog, the Mauser quickly morphed into that particular weapon. Boone and Weitzman backed down from insisting it was a Mauser. Only Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig, who was on Boone’s heels when the rifle was discovered on the sixth floor, continued to assert it was a Mauser, even stating that stamped on the barrel was “7.65 Mauser.”

And from November 23 onward, the Mannlicher Carcano — and only the Mannlicher Carcano — was the weapon used to assassinate the president…at the hands of Texas School Book Depository clerk Lee Oswald. And nothing was said of the Mauser again.

Repeating nonsense achieves nothing. Except boredom.