JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[GBinOz]

It is an easy one, but not in the way that you think.

Klein's Sporting Goods had run out of the 36-inch long (91 cm) Carcano model M91 TS carbines and sent Oswald a 40.1-inch Carcano M91/38.

The document you post appears to be an alteration of an order for Mannlicher Carcano M91TS to be replaced by Beretta Terni M98/38 placed by Kleins with Crescent Firearms. The order alteration is dated 15 Jan 1962. How does this relate to Klein's advertisement in the February 1963 issue of American Rifleman magazine for a C20-T750, for which Oswald allegedly placed his order using a coupon clipped from that advertisement?

[Herlock Sholmes]

A large skull fragment can be seen exploding downward in the Z-film, and, sure enough, a large skull fragment was found on the floor of the limo. As it exploded forward, while still attached to the scalp, it could very well have torn the scalp in the direction it traveled. Unfortunately, they failed to take photos of this fragment.

But a number of witnesses viewing a large fragment claimed it had hair on it.



On 11-30-63, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, who'd climbed onto the back of Kennedy's limo just after the fatal shot was fired, wrote a report that included an often-overlooked detail. He wrote: "As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lieing in the seat."

And Hill wasn't the only one to see this hairy fragment. Motorcycle Officer Bobby Joe Dale arrived upon the scene just as the President's body was rushed into the emergency room. He failed to get a look at the President. He did, however, get a look at the back seat of the limo. Here's what he told Larry Sneed, as published in No More Silence (1998): "Blood and matter was everywhere inside the car including a bone fragment which was oblong shaped, probably an inch to an inch and a half long by three-quarters of an inch wide. As I turned it over and looked at it, I determined that it came from some part of the forehead because there was hair on it which appeared to be near the hairline."

And Dale wasn't the only motorcycle officer to make such a statement. When interviewed for the 2008 Discovery Channel program Inside the Target Car, H.B. McClain related: "When I raised her up (he means Mrs. Kennedy)...I could see it on the floor. That's pieces of skull with the hair on it."


Thanks Clint Hill , Bobby Joe Dale H.B. McClain. for proving the Autopsy photo id a fake .



MORE ''Actual Evidence ''.

That Zapruder film really is a buffet table for you isn’t it. It’s faked and not faked. You pick bits you like as evidence and bits that you don’t are faked or ignored. There is no recourse to reason or logic or common sense, it’s simply a conspiracy theorist beginning with an irrational assumption and then seeing everything in terms of confirmation bias.

The Zapruder films shows, in colour, in detail that cannot be mistaken……no great wound in the back of Kennedy’s head.

That is evidence Fishy.

Have you ever heard of a court case where cctv footage was dismissed as ‘faked?’ No, of course you haven’t because we our justice system doesn’t live down a rabbit hole.

Therefore, categorically in a court of law the Zapruder film would have been seen by a jury as unequivocal proof that there was no large wound to the back of Kennedy’s.

Have you ever heard of a court of law rejecting x-rays as faked? No, because we live in the real world not a conspiracy theorist fantasy. Therefore a jury would have seen the x-Ray of the Presidents head matching exactly with what the Zapruder films shows to come to only one conclusion…..guilty.

And no amount of cutting and pasting from conspiracy theorist websites will change that.

[Fiver]

So the proposal is that the perpetrator deliberately emptied the shells from a revolver and threw them on the ground for the police to use as evidence.

You saying that gives the strong impression that you haven't read any of the eyewitness testimony. Witness testimony makes it clear that Oswald was emptying the shells and reloading with live rounds.

But the first report was that the handgun involved was a 38 Auto, as were the shell casings, which would have been ejected and would have had to be picked up to avoid them being used as evidence. A 38ACP (auto) cannot be chambered in a 38 special revolver, and vice-versa.

Your source is being deceptive by showing full bullets instead o expended shells.

Officer Gerald Hill did call in that "The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol." Hill did not observe the shooting.

Mr. HILL. Right. And Poe showed me a Winston cigarette package that contained three spent jackets from shells that he said a citizen had pointed out to him where the suspect had reloaded his gun and dropped these in the grass, and that the citizen had picked them up and put them in the Winston package.
I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible, for him to retain these at that time, and to be sure and mark them for evidence, and then turn them over to the crime lab when he got there, or to homicide.

Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe.
Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides?
Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he tell you?
Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up.
Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn?
Mr. POE. A man, white man.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he ran.
Mr. BALL. And what did he say?
Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up.
Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls?
Mr. POE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls?
Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls?
Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene.
Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab?
Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it.

All four expended shells were recovered by civilians. All were for a 38 revolver, not a 38 automatic.

Which leaves two options:
* The Conspiracy used the wrong gun, but planted the right shell casings without being seen by over a dozen witnesses, and got several of these witnesses to lie about the shooter reloading in order to frame Oswald for a crime they didn't need to frame Oswald for.
* Or Officer Hill made a mistake.

[Fiver]

The Commission never considered that more than one rifle had been found in the building. They, as well as researchers over the decades, have considered the identification of the rifle found on the sixth floor as a Mauser just a simple error.
But other evidence indicates that might not be the case.

Your source claims the WC "never considered that more than one rifle had been found in the building? and yet it quote the WC doing just that.

But the evidence may say otherwise because two days before the assassination an employee in the building, Warren Caster, brought two rifles into the building, one a single shot .22 ( a Christmas gift for his son ) and the other, a 30.06 Mauser that had been sporterized.

Your source conveniently ignores that these rifles were also taken home, not left at the TSBD.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that?
Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office.
Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that?
Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever have them back in the Texas School Book Depository Building thereafter?
Mr. CASTER. They have never been back to the Texas School Book Depository Building since then.
Mr. BALL. Where were those guns on November 22, 1963?
Mr. CASTER. The guns were in my home, 3338 Merrell Road.

Your source also selectively quotes Shelly.

Mr. BALL. What happened to the guns?
Mr. SHELLEY. Well, we looked them over, like you do any new toy, and he putts them back in the box and goes out of the door.
Mr. BALL. And did you ever see them again?
Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen any guns in that building before that date?
Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see any guns in that building between that date and the time the President was shot?
Mr. SHELLEY. No, sir.

November 22, 1963: An imported 30.06 in the window
Assassination witness Arnold Rowland was standing across the street from the TSBD and saw a man in the sixth floor window. He described the rifle he saw in the hands of the man:

Mr. SPECTER - Can you describe the rifle with any more particularity than you already have?
Mr. ROWLAND - No. In proportion to the scope it appeared to me to be a .30-odd size 6, a deer rifle with a fairly large or powerful scope.
Mr. SPECTER - When you say, .30-odd-6, exactly what did you mean by that?
Mr. ROWLAND - That is a rifle that is used quite frequently for deer hunting. It is an import. ( 2 H 170 )

So your Conspiracy
* Shot JFK with a 30.06.
* Planted expended shells from Oswald's Carcano in the sniper's nest.
* Planted a Mauser on the 6th floor,

Who is running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry, and Curly?

An Argentine rifle
In a June 1964 interview with KSFO in San Francisco, Sgt. Gerald Hill said that he was told by another officer that the rifle found on the sixth floor of the TSBD "was made in Argentina".

So the Conspiracy switched between three different rifles of different calibers made on different continents, let them be filmed and photographed by the news and thought no one would notice the difference?

Who is running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry, and Curly?

[Fiver]

The document you post appears to be an alteration of an order for Mannlicher Carcano M91TS to be replaced by Beretta Terni M98/38 placed by Kleins with Crescent Firearms. The order alteration is dated 15 Jan 1962. How does this relate to Klein's advertisement in the February 1963 issue of American Rifleman magazine for a C20-T750, for which Oswald allegedly placed his order using a coupon clipped from that advertisement?

It's an example of Klein's substituting when they were out of 91TS.

[Fiver]

A sporterized rifle firing at the President is what witness James Worrell described. He was standing in front of the TSBD when the shooting started and at the sound of the first shot he said he looked up and saw "12 inches of a gun barrel sticking out of a window of the building".

The 12" barrel he described could not have been belonged to the Mannlicher-Carcano ( CE 139 ), whose barrel only extended a few inches beyond the stock.

Your source appears to be lying again.

In his November 23 Affidavit, Worrell said "Yesterday afternoon at approximately 12:30 pm I was standing on the sidewalk against a building on the corner of Elm and Houston Streets watching the motorcade of the President. I heard loud noise like a fire cracker or gun shots. I looked around to see where the noise came from. I looked up and saw the barrel of a rifle sticking out of a window over my head about 5 or 6 stories up. While I was looking at the gun it was fired again. I looked back at Mr. Kennedy and he was slumping over. I got scared and ran from the location. While I was running I heard the gun fire two more times."

His Warren Commission testimony did not contradict his affidavit, nor did it contradict the appearance of a Carcano.

Mr. WORRELL - Well, when I heard the first shot it was to loud to be a firecracker, I knew that, because there was quite a big boom, and I don't know, just out of nowhere, I looked up like that, just straight up.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating you looked straight back over your head, raising your head to look over your body at the 90 degree angle?
Mr. WORRELL - Yes; and I saw it for the second time and I looked back to the motorcade.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe at that time?
Mr. WORRELL - I saw about 6 inches of the gun, the rifle. It had - well it had a regular long barrel but it had a long stock and you can only see maybe 4 inches of the barrel, and I could see --
Mr. SPECTER - Were you able to observe any of the stock?
Mr. WORRELL - Oh, yes.
Mr. SPECTER - How much of the stock were you able to observe?
Mr. WORRELL - Just very little, just about 2 inches.
Mr. SPECTER - How many inches of the barrel then could you observe protruding beyond the stock?
Mr. WORRELL - About 4 inches, I would say, not very much.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The Rifle and the Shells


The three shells that were found on the 6th floor were tested by Robert A. Frazier (FBI’s Washington Lab) and Joseph D. Nicol (Superintendent of the Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation for the state of Illinois) for the Warren Commission. They compared all microscopic marks that the bolt face and the firing pin of the rifle had left on the expended cartridge cases and compared the with cartridges cases expended when they test fired the rifle (Oswald’s rifle).

They concluded that the cartridges had been fired from Oswald’s gun to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world. Fifteen years later a panel of firearms experts that sat for the HSCA reached an identical conclusion.


Conspiracy theorists, in their never ending obsession with exonerating the obviously guilty Oswald cite one of their huge ‘team’ of dodgy star witnesses, Deputy Sheriff Roger ‘looney’ Craig. He told the Press, five years after the assassination (as ever), that he’d seen the casings and that they were all facing in the same direction against the wall and that they were no more than three quarters of an inch apart. In 1971 however (in the manuscript of his unpublished book) and in true conspiracy mode, he claimed that they ‘looked’ as if they had been placed there and the three of them were no more than an inch apart. By 1975 Craig had increased the distance to ‘no more than two inches.’ A year later CT’s Gary Shaw and Larry Harris added on another inch so ‘about 3 inches apart). Craig’s nonsense (so beloved by CT’s) are easily exposed. We just need to see what he’d said to the Warren Commission in 1964. He heard someone call out that they had found shells and a couple of minutes later he went over for a look but he didn’t get too close. In the later interviews he’d claimed to have immediately gone over and examined them carefully. Asked if he recalled any of the shells being up against the wall he said “ No, I don’t. I didn’t look that close.”

Yup…we can dismiss this idiot without a second thought.


Fishy though tries to dismiss/smear Officer Weitzman when he changed his mind even though the circumstances were entirely understandable to anyone being remotely reasonable. He had looked into a gap between the boxes, not up close, and saw a rifle which looked like a Mauser; he heard someone else conclude the same so that’s the initial assumption that he made. He then found out that it wasn’t a Mauser. This was hardly error of the century because everyone agrees that the two weapons are easy confuse. But as Fiver has said, any error is leapt on by CT’s as being part of a plot. No one can make an honest mistake according to them. Frankly, it’s a more than a little childish approach. Craig, on the other hand, zigzags around like a looney and sees a mirage of Oswald 10 minutes after he’d left Dealey Plaza and yet this is the guy that Fishy prefers to support. Work that one out people. I can. It’s called confirmation bias. Incidentally, when the FBI tested where Carcano shells would have fallen they were found to have been entirely consistent with where the shells were actually found. So how lucky were our plotters when they planted them! In addition, Luke Mooney, who found the cartridges, said that it looked like they might have been ejected and then bounced off the cartons. Hardly consistent with Craig’s nonsense about planted cartridges all neatly lined up is it? And this is the same Craig who ‘saw’ Oswald get into a Nash Rambler in Dealey Plaza 10 minutes after he’d left. And who claimed that the police found a rifle on the roof (being guarded by a pink elephant called Gerald I believe) But of course, in their desperation to create a fictional plot conspiracy theorists don’t mind who they use. Proven liars and fantasists like Craig are welcomed. Ricky White, Ed Hoffman, Beverley Oliver all esteemed members.

And this guy is the source of the Mauser nonsense. There was no Mauser at the scene. End of story.

…………………………………….


The Bullet Fragments


Then we have the bullet fragments, two of which were found in the limousine on the night that Oswald killed Kennedy. A third set of fragments were found under Mrs Connally’s seat were too small to connect to Oswald’s rifle…more about these later.*

One of the larger pieces, recovered from the front seating compartment (on the driver’s seat, just to the right of the driver) was designated Exhibit No. 567. It was described as a piece of the copper metal jacket of a bullet with a part of the lead core still attached to it. It weighs 44.6 grains (a grain is a tenth of an ounce) which is less than a third of the weight of an intact Carcano bullet. Frazier and Nicol decided that there were sufficiently distinctive barrel markings for them to be compared using two microscopes side by side with one having on it the test bullets fired from Oswald’s rifle.

The experts identified the bullet fragments as having been fired in Oswald’s rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. In 1978 a panel of 5 experts for the HSCA came to exactly the same conclusion.


The second fragment, designated Exhibit No. 569 was found on the floor to the right of the drivers seat. This one weighed just 21 grains and came from the base of a bullet. There was no lead core to this fragment, it was only jacket. Despite the fact that the bullet was badly mutilated, around a third of the surface was sufficiently undamaged to do a comparison test.

The experts concluded that the bullet came from Oswald’s rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons. And again, in 1978, the HSCA panel of 5 experts all arrived at exactly the same conclusion.


The experts had no way of finding out if the two fragments came from the same, or from two different bullets. What they did know for certain though was that bullets from Oswald’s rifle killed Kennedy without any possible doubt.

Exhibit No. 399, found on a stretcher at Parkland and fatuously labelled ‘the magic bullet’ by CT’s was also tested in exactly the same way.

It had been fired from Oswald’s rifle to the exclusion of all other rifles in the world. The HSCA’s 5 man panel of experts concluded 100% in agreement. (All ‘in on it’ no doubt.)


If Only Conspiracy Theorists Would Use A Dictionary.

And of course, with no. 399 we get the myth of the ‘pristine bullet.’ This came from the one single Warren Commission photograph. This word has been bandied around on here so let’s just remind people of the definition of pristine: “in its original condition; unspoilt.” Ok, does this actually describe no. 399? The public got their first good view of the bullet in 1978 on the televised HSCA hearing where they photographs depicting the bullet from 4 views (two sides, front and base) The base view shows the bullet badly smashed into an ovoid shape. It’s also clear that lead is protruding. Ballistics expert Larry Sturdivan told the HSCA that this is exactly what happens when a bullet begins to deform. Some of the lead was actually missing which took the bullets weight from 161 grains down to 158.6 grains. This is demonstrably not a ‘pristine’ bullet. Any use of the word ‘pristine’ is evidentially dishonest. Michael Baden of the HSCA labelled ‘pristine’ as a ‘media description.’ He went on to say: “It’s like being a little bit pregnant - it is either pristine or it is not pristine. This is a damaged bullet…not a pristine one. This is a bullet that is deformed. It would be very hard to take a hammer and flatten it to the degree that this is flattened.”


He went on to explain that in its course through the President and Connally it “did not strike much that would cause it to be damaged.” It passed through soft tissue until it struck Connally’s 5th rib, a glancing blow on a very thin bone. The panel agreed that the likeliest cause of the flattening of the bullet was when it came into contact with the Governor’s lower forearm. The radius in the wrist are not very hard and can damage some bullets but no others. Dr. Charles Petty, Chief Medical Examiner of Dallas and a member of the HSCA’s Forensic Pathology panel, after being shown the pictures of the bullet, was asked if that bullet could have emerged from both Kennedy and Connally as described in that condition. He replied: “Yes, of course.” He was also asked if he had seen a bullet causing the kind of damage to Kennedy and Connally emerging in a similar way to the one on screen. His reply? “Yes, of course.”


Conspiracy theorists love pointing out the faults in the Warren Commission and I’m happy to mention one. They fired a bullet directly into the wrist of a cadaver which came out more damaged than c399. People like Lane and Wecht loved this of course as they rubbed their conspiracist hands together with glee. Of course you know that there’s a huge BUT coming. But..the WC were mistaken in using this experiment. I don’t mind accepting that they made a mistake. Dr. John Lattimer, who did tests himself on the rifle, told Gerald Posner:” …the Warren Commission did not conduct the proper experiments. They fired a 6.5mm (bullet) travelling at over 2000 feet per second directly into a wrist bone. Of course you are going to get deformation of the bullet when it strikes a hard object at full speed.” Larry Sturdivan, a physical scientist and wound ballistics expert said the condition of c399 was: “…direct proof that the bullet that struck Governor Connally’s wrist was not at high velocity.” This shows that the bullet that struck Connally had struck something else first, to have resulted in it slowing down. We wonder what that could have been?

Just to conclude this section with Dr. Petty (who was probably ‘in on it’ of course) said: “This is the behaviour of a full metal jacketed bullet, a bullet in all areas except the base by means of the firm, hard, tough, not easy to deform jacket.”


So the conclusion is inescapable and was confirmed by independent experts..c399 and the fragments all came from Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano.

…………….

* The fragments found under Mrs Connally’s seat, in the Governor’s wrist and in Kennedy’s brain.

In May of 1964 FBI agent John F. Gallagher used neutron activation analysis to try and identify the origin of the fragments. This was the first time that the FBI had used this method (showing that even a year later these ‘in on it’ people were still trying to find more information) Two years later the FBI actually established their own NAA group. Gallagher went to a lab in Tennessee to carry out testing but, possibly in part due to inexperience, the results were inconclusive.

Dr. Nichols, who was a pathologist at the University of Kansas Medical Centre, tried for years to get Hoover and his successor Kelly to release the fragments for independent NAA testing but, even though he had Dr. Vincent Guinn, a professor of chemistry at the University of California’s Irvine campus on his side they had no luck. Where these two failed, the HSCA succeeded, and in 1977 they convinced the FBI to release the fragments for testing and for Guinn to try to determine whether c399 matched the fragments found in the limousine and those removed from Connally’s wrist.

Conspiracy time again - there were small differences in those minute samples (from the fragments) that were examined by Guinn compared to the samples examined by the FBI (which no longer existed because they were spectrographic analysis was partially destructive in nature and the minuscule remains were disposed of by the FBI.) CT’s almost boringly predictably cried ‘tampering.’ Vincent Bugliosi, being a proper investigator, found out from Guinn who had actually been in charge of the fragments. It was a James Geer of the National Archives in Washington. Bugliosi asked him: “What security measures were taken to guard the evidence while in the state of California?” Geer replied: “Well, all the time that I was working with the samples, every place that I went with samples in my possession, I had two armed guards (US Marshall’s) on either side of me.”


They were probably ‘in on it’ though of course.


Dr. Guinn found that Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition was quite unusual compared to others in that there was very little uniformity within a batch. This made the conditions more favourable for NAA testing compared to other ammunition which tended to be more uniform. Ten different samples were given to him for testing, all of which were identified by WC or FBI numbers. Three of these weren’t suitable for testing and the testing of another two provided only very basic information. The five specimens left were of much greater value though. They were - 1) c399, 2) c567 (one of the fragments from the front seat), 3) c843 (two fragments from Kennedy’s brain) 4) c842 (3 fragments from Connally’s wrist) 5) c840 (fragments found on the rug of the left jump seat)

All 5 samples, when subjected to NAA testing, produced a profile highly characteristic of the Western Cartridge Company’s Mannlicher-Carcano ammunition. More specifically, the results from the 5 fell into two very distinct groups. Two of those groups had a concentration of antimony of 800 parts per 1000000 while three had a concentration of 600 per 1000000. According to the experts this could only mean one thing…all five specimens had come from two bullets. There is no evidence of any more than two bullets according to science.

They concluded, through science, that the large fragment found in the limousine, the smaller fragment found on the rug and the fragments recovered from Kennedy’s brain all came from the same subject. THAT is proper evidence…not some junk clipped from the website of some conspiracy theorist. But it gets better….


The results also concluded that elemental composition and concentration of trace elements of the three fragments removed from Governor Connally wrist matched those of the second bullet….the bullet found on the stretcher. Proving, again by science, that conspiracist claims of planting are simply inventions, deliberately made to try and add weight to an invented conspiracy.

And as Fiver has often asked…if this bullet didn’t end up on Connally’s stretcher…where did it vanish too? No…science and reason kicks conspiracist inventions into the long grass.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Your source appears to be lying again.

In his November 23 Affidavit, Worrell said "Yesterday afternoon at approximately 12:30 pm I was standing on the sidewalk against a building on the corner of Elm and Houston Streets watching the motorcade of the President. I heard loud noise like a fire cracker or gun shots. I looked around to see where the noise came from. I looked up and saw the barrel of a rifle sticking out of a window over my head about 5 or 6 stories up. While I was looking at the gun it was fired again. I looked back at Mr. Kennedy and he was slumping over. I got scared and ran from the location. While I was running I heard the gun fire two more times."

His Warren Commission testimony did not contradict his affidavit, nor did it contradict the appearance of a Carcano.

Mr. WORRELL - Well, when I heard the first shot it was to loud to be a firecracker, I knew that, because there was quite a big boom, and I don't know, just out of nowhere, I looked up like that, just straight up.
Mr. SPECTER - Indicating you looked straight back over your head, raising your head to look over your body at the 90 degree angle?
Mr. WORRELL - Yes; and I saw it for the second time and I looked back to the motorcade.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe at that time?
Mr. WORRELL - I saw about 6 inches of the gun, the rifle. It had - well it had a regular long barrel but it had a long stock and you can only see maybe 4 inches of the barrel, and I could see --
Mr. SPECTER - Were you able to observe any of the stock?
Mr. WORRELL - Oh, yes.
Mr. SPECTER - How much of the stock were you able to observe?
Mr. WORRELL - Just very little, just about 2 inches.
Mr. SPECTER - How many inches of the barrel then could you observe protruding beyond the stock?
Mr. WORRELL - About 4 inches, I would say, not very much.

The so-called ‘evidence’ is easily exposed, as you’ve just done Fiver. With all of these dodgy CT witnesses one question always comes to mind first for me - did this person ever run into Mark Lane?

[Fiver]

In light of all this evidence, we must reconsider the descriptions given by the Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman and Sheriff's Deputies Eugene Boone and Roger Craig of the rifle found on the sixth floor.
Warren Commission supporters have always relied on two things: 1.) that Seymour Weitzman was mistaken and 2.) that Roger Craig was a xxxx.

There are reasons to doubt anything that Roger Craig said, as he repeatedly contradicted others and himself. It's bad enough that some Conspiracists reject Craig as a witness.

Weitzman accepted that he could have been mistaken about the rifle.

[A P Tomlinson]

A strap is an accessory, not a permanent part of the weapon.

Oswald didn't buy a new rifle direct from the factory. He bought a used rifle mail order. Unlike some other rifles in that ad, the Mannlicher-Carcano is pictured without a sling and no sling is mentioned in the rifle's description.

THAT rifle came WITH the strap already bolted into place. It's not the sort with clips where you just easily remove and replace them. And even if there was a missing strap, the strap connectors were fixed on the side of the stock, not the bottom. So not only has he fabricated a strap, he has added two completely pointless connectors to the underside of the rifle, only to remove them to the point there is no evidence they ever existed in order to remove and replace the connectors to the side when he replaces his home made strap with a new carcano strap that he bought...? When it would have been far easier to tie his homemade affair to the existing connectors.
Yeah, dead simple...

On the subject of his mail order, and being accurate to the picture... the rifle found at the TSBD was an entirely different model to the one shown in the picture. He ordered a 36" model and the one they found was 40.2"

Not to mention how the rifle was allowed to be stored in Oswalds PO Box, which was listed under only his name. A J Hidell wasn't a signatory or listed on the PO Box, and Section 355.111b(4) of the US Postal Code dictated that "... mail addressed to a person at a post office box, who is not authorized to receive mail, shall be endorsed 'addressee unknown' and returned to the sender where possible."
But it was only a rifle being sent to some guy named Hidell, so they probably let that slide and allowed Oswald to take it.
I wonder how that conversation played out "I'm Oswald and I'm just looking after it for AJ." "I'm Hidell and Lee says I can use his box, you just have to trust me" or "Ah you see I'm BOTH... I use Hidell when I want to buy easily traceable weapons through the mail!"

[Fiver]

A large skull fragment can be seen exploding downward in the Z-film, and, sure enough, a large skull fragment was found on the floor of the limo. As it exploded forward, while still attached to the scalp, it could very well have torn the scalp in the direction it traveled. Unfortunately, they failed to take photos of this fragment.

But a number of witnesses viewing a large fragment claimed it had hair on it.



On 11-30-63, Secret Service Agent Clint Hill, who'd climbed onto the back of Kennedy's limo just after the fatal shot was fired, wrote a report that included an often-overlooked detail. He wrote: "As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President's head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lieing in the seat."

And Hill wasn't the only one to see this hairy fragment. Motorcycle Officer Bobby Joe Dale arrived upon the scene just as the President's body was rushed into the emergency room. He failed to get a look at the President. He did, however, get a look at the back seat of the limo. Here's what he told Larry Sneed, as published in No More Silence (1998): "Blood and matter was everywhere inside the car including a bone fragment which was oblong shaped, probably an inch to an inch and a half long by three-quarters of an inch wide. As I turned it over and looked at it, I determined that it came from some part of the forehead because there was hair on it which appeared to be near the hairline."

And Dale wasn't the only motorcycle officer to make such a statement. When interviewed for the 2008 Discovery Channel program Inside the Target Car, H.B. McClain related: "When I raised her up (he means Mrs. Kennedy)...I could see it on the floor. That's pieces of skull with the hair on it."


Thanks Clint Hill , Bobby Joe Dale H.B. McClain. for proving the Autopsy photo id a fake .

None of those statements prove that the autopsy photo was fake.

[Patrick Differ]

So the Parkland Doctors who were trauma Doctors used to treating gunshot wounds were ALL wrong in what they saw. A gaping wound in the back of the skull?
And the Zapruder Film backs up the Autopsy diagrams by Humes in Bethesda? Eventhough it clearly does not explain the explosion in the Zapruder film in the front of Kennedys Head.
And the Magic Bullet was pristine eventhough it shattered Connallys ribs and hit bone. But since it was a heavy metal jacket at high velocity and was at a perfect angle of alignment to Kennedy and Connally, which it wasnt, it was a slight acute angle, that is fully plausible. Eventhough the 2nd shot to the head with the same gun and bullet type acted completely different at high velocity and the bullet actually exploded apart. And as the Autopsy sketch shows exited the front of the head but did not hit Connally or Kellerman. Actually the Zapruder film shows Kellerman not moving at all. He completely froze.

IN terms of frame 225 v 245 that would actually make a difference to the number of bullets. If the magic high velocity hits Kennedy and Connally at 225 or even 245 you would expect an immediate reaction from Connally. Yet the frames in the Zapruder film show no reaction by Connally for a second, 2 seconds for Frame 225.
The Warren Commission had a difficult time explaining the discrepancy. Connally originally believed he was hit with a seperate shot The Zapruder film appears to back up that possibility. Kennedy is reacting and Connally is not moving.
The WC also had a hard time reconciling why Tippit witnesses heard 3 shots but 4 shells were found. And why the killer would stop and leave shells at the scene to implicate himself for any reason.

Why withold documents for over 60 years??

[Herlock Sholmes]

So the Parkland Doctors who were trauma Doctors used to treating gunshot wounds were ALL wrong in what they saw. A gaping wound in the back of the skull?

Dr. Carrico, who was one of those Doctors, was asked by Vincent Bugliosi if the Doctors who thought that they’d seen a rear head wound could have been mistaken he replied “Absolutely.”

That they mistook a mass of blood and gore and hair around an area of the head that the President was lying on is hardly a surprise. The Doctors who were employed to find the cause of death, unlike the Parkland Doctors who were focused on the throat, were the autopsy doctors. Their results count. And the pathologists of the HSCA who all confirmed their findings.

All babyish talk of ‘fake’ and ‘forgery’ just expose the inherent weakness of conspiracy theorist points. Oswald killed Kennedy. All else is dishonesty. It’s a deliberate bandwagon, grown over the years, by researchers/writers who are simply out for money and self-aggrandisement. I’m sick and tired of wading through all of this infantile stuff.

[Patrick Differ]

You use some harsh words to defend your position there Mr Holmes. From my own perspective I see legitimate debate in some areas that show doubt. I would especially be skeptical of those " government " officials who had axes to grind with this President. As I said before there is counterpoint to much of what is debated here. There is a reason for withholding classified documents. As an American I just want to know the truth and I don't see anything infantile in that at all. I also lean towards not trusting government to not lie to its citizens. I would rather question it then march blindly to their drum. But that's just me.

[Fiver]

So the Parkland Doctors who were trauma Doctors used to treating gunshot wounds were ALL wrong in what they saw. A gaping wound in the back of the skull?

Lets look at what the doctors said.

Said the large wound was in the back.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as specifically as you can the head wound which you have already mentioned briefly?
Dr. CARRICO - Sure. This was a 5- by 71-cm defect in the posterior skull, the occipital region. There was an absence of the calvarium or skull in this area, with shredded tissue, brain tissue present and initially considerable slow oozing. Then after we established some circulation there was more profuse bleeding from this wound.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe the President's condition to be on your arrival there?
Dr. CLARK - I then examined the wound in the back of the President's head. This was a large, gaping wound in the right posterior part, with cerebral and cerebellar tissue being damaged and exposed. There was considerable blood loss evident on the carriage, the floor, and the clothing of some of the people present. I would estimate 1,500 cc. of blood being present.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe as precisely as you can the nature of the head wound?
Dr. JONES - There was large defect in the back side of the head as the President lay on the cart with what appeared to be some brain hanging out of this wound with multiple pieces of skull noted next with the brain and with a tremendous amount of clot and blood.

Dr. McCLELLAND - As I took the position at the head of the table that I have already described, to help out with the tracheotomy, I was in such a position that I could very closely examine the head wound, and I noted that the right posterior portion of the skull had been extremely blasted. It had been shattered, apparently, by the force of the shot so that the parietal bone was protruded up through the scalp and seemed to be fractured almost along its right posterior half, as well as some of the occipital bone being fractured in its lateral haft, and this sprung open the bones that I mentioned in such a way that you could actually look down into the skull cavity itself and see that probably a third or so, at least, of the brain tissue, posterior cerebral tissue and some of the cerebellar tissue had been blasted out. There was a large amount of bleeding which was occurring mainly from the large venous channels in the skull which had been blasted open.

Said the large wound was in the front.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you have any opinion as to the direction-that the bullet hit his head?
Dr. AKIN - I assume that the right occipitalparietal region was the exit, so to speak, that he had probably been hit on the other side of the head, or at least tangentially in the back of the head, but I didn't have any hard and fast opinions about that either.

Mr. Specter - Now, will you describe in as much particularity as you can the nature of the head wound
Dr. Baxter - The only wound that I actually saw--Dr. Clark examined this above the manubrium of the sternum, the sternal notch. This wound was in temporal parietal plate of bone laid outward to the side and there was a large area, oh, I would say 6 by 8 or 10 cm. of lacerated brain oozing from this wound, part of which was on the table and made a rather massive blood. loss mixed with it and around it.

Mr. SPECTER - Will you now describe as specifically as you can, the injury which you noted in the President's head?
Dr. PERRY - As I mentioned previously in the record, I made only a cursory examination of the President's head. I noted a large avulsive wound of the right parietal occipital area, in which both scalp and portions of skull were absent, and there was severe laceration of underlying brain tissue. My examination did not go any further than that.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the nature of the President's wound?
Dr. PETERS - Well, as I mentioned, the neck wound had already been interfered with by the tracheotomy at the time I got there, but I noticed the head wound, and as I remember--I noticed that there was a large defect in the occiput.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you notice in the occiput?
Dr. PETERS - It seemed to me that in the right occipitalparietal area that there was a large defect. There appeared to be bone loss and brain loss in the area.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe with respect to the head wound?
Dr. SALYER - I came in on the left side of him and noticed that his major wound seemed to be in his right temporal area, at least from the point of view that I could see him, and other than that--nothing other than he did have a gaping scalp wound-- cranial wound.

Did not specify.
Mr. SPECTER - And what did you observe the President's condition to be at the time you arrived?
Dr. BASHOUR - The President was lying on the stretcher, the head wound was massive, the blood was dripping from the head, and at that time the President had an endotracheal tube, and his pupils were dilated, his eyes were staring, and they were not reactive, there was no pulsations, his heart sounds were not present, and his extremities were cold.

Mr. SPECTER - During the course of your presence near President Kennedy, did you have any opportunity to observe any wounds on his body?
Dr. CURTIS - After I had completed the cutdown, I went around to the right side of the patient and saw the head wound.
Mr. SPECTER - And what did you observe there?
Dr. CURTIS - Oh--fragments of bone and a gross injury to the cranial contents, with copious amounts of hemorrhage.

Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe as to the condition of the President when you entered?
DR. DULANY - Well, at this time his pupils were fixed and dilated and he had a large head wound---that was the first thing I noticed.

Mr. SPECTER - Now, will you now describe the wound which you observed in the head?
Dr. JENKINS - Almost by the time I was--had the time to pay more attention to the wound in the head, all of these other activities were under way. I was busy connecting up an apparatus to respire for the patient, exerting manual pressure on the breathing bag or anesthesia apparatus, trying to feel for a pulse in the neck, and then reaching up and feeling for one in the temporal area, seeing about connecting the cardioscope or directing its being connected, and then turned attention to the wound in the head.
Now, Dr. Clark had begun closed chest cardiac massage at this time and I was aware of the magnitude of the wound, because with each compression of the chest, there was a great rush of blood from the skull wound. Part of the brain was herniated; I really think part of the cerebellum, as I recognized it, was herniated from the wound; there was part of the brain tissue, broken fragments of the brain tissue on the drapes of the cart on which the President lay.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you have an opportunity to observe any of his wounds?
Dr. WHITE - I saw the wound in his head as he was brought into the trauma room where he was treated.

Other
Mr. SPECTER - What was the condition of the President when you arrived?
Dr. GIESECKE - There was a great deal of blood loss which was apparent when he came in the room--the cart was covered with blood and there was a great deal of blood on the floor. There was--I could see no spontaneous motion on the part of the President. In other words, he made no movement during the time that I was in the room. As I moved around towards the head of the emergency cart with the anesthesia machine and the resuscitative equipment and helped Dr. Jenkins to hook the anesthesia machine up to the President to give him oxygen, I noticed that he had a very large cranial wound, with loss of brain substance, and it seemed that most of the bleeding was coming from the cranial wound.
Mr. SPECTER - What did you observe specifically as to the nature of the cranial wound ?
Dr. GIESECKE - It seemed that from the vertex to the left ear, and from the browline to the occiput on the left-hand side of the head the cranium was entirely missing.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you observe any wounds on the President?
Dr. HUNT - I actually did not see the wounds.
Mr. SPECTER - Did you at any time see a wound to the head?
Dr. HUNT - No; I didn't see it.
Mr. SPECTER - And was there something obscuring your view from seeing the head wound?
Dr. HUNT - Yes; I could see his face and I could also see that a great deal of blood was running off of the table from his right side and I was on his left side.