JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Fiver]

I’d suggest that you check a dictionary for the word ‘pristine.’ The bullet certainly wasn’t pristine. What we did get though is an example of the same type of bullet, fired through a few feet of wood, then dug out and found to be less damaged than c399.

But it looks like you are accusing the 4 people that independently confirmed Fraziers results as liars, morons, idiots Fishy. Isn’t that the case? How else can you describe those highly regarded experts that confirmed the results of another highly regarded expert?

Technically he's accusing more than four ballistics experts. Newquist testified about the bullets and bullet fragments, but he was part of the HSC Firearms panel.

In April 1977, the select committee sought recommendations for membership for the panel from the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Exa. miners, the Forensic Science Foundation and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. Candidates were to be leading firearms experts who had had no prior affiliation with either the King or the Kennedy assassination cases.

A list of 27 experts was proposed. Five were eliminated initially: three were current or past employees of the FBI; one had authored material on the firearms evidence; and one was unable to undertake the project. The remaining 22 prospects were asked to submit resumes, with information on past affiliations with the case and opinions about the assassination or the firearms evidence. Eighteen responded, 10 of whom did not want to be considered or did not meet the committee's criteria.

The following five experts were chosen to serve on the panel:

John S. Bates, Jr.--Senior firearms examiner in the New York State Police Laboratory at Albany. He has been a lecturer at the New York State Police Academy, New York State Municipal Police Training Council, and various community colleges. Bates is a member of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners, serving as secretary since 1973. In that year, he received the association's Distinguished Member Award. He has written numerous professional articles.

Donald E. Champagne.--Firearm and tool mark examiner with the Florida Department of Criminal Law Enforcement in Tallahassee for the past 10 years. He served in the crime detection laboratory of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Ottawa, Ontario, for 15 years, and he has lectured extensively at the Canadian Police College and other law enforcement agencies. Champagne is president and a distinguished member of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners. He is a member of the Southern Association of Forensic Scientists and the Canadian Society of Forensic Science.

Monty C. Lutz.--Firearm and tool mark analyst with the Wisconsin Regional Crime Laboratory in New Berlin. He has been the chief firearm and tool mark examiner for the U.S. Army. Lutz is a past president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Makers Examiners. He has been named a disthinguished member of the *The same panel members wore also to examine the firearms evidence in the King assassination case. association. He has lectured at colleges and law enforcement schools across the country and is the author of numerous professional publications. He received a B.S. in criminal justice from the University of Nebraska.

Andrew M. Newquist.--Special agent and firearm, tool mark and latent fingerprint examiner for the Iowa Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Newquist is a distinguished member and past president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners and currently serves on its executive committee. He is a member of the International Association for Identification and a lecturer at the Iowa Department of Public Safety.

The panel conducted its examination at the facilities of the Metropolitan Police Department firearm identification section, Washington, D.C Assigned as liaison to the panel and working closely with it as technical assistant was George R. Wilson, senior firearms examiner, Metropolitan Police Department, Washington, D.C., a position he has held for 9 years. The laboratory, which he established, was the first in the department's history. Wilson is second vice president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners. In 1974, he received the association's Distinguished Member Award. During his 25-year tenure with the metropolitan Police Department, he has been awarded over 30 commendations for outstanding and meritorious performance of duty.

[Fiver]

In 1978 former CIA accountant James B. Wilcott swore under oath before the House Select Committee on Assassinations that Lee Harvey Oswald was a "regular employee" of the Central Intelligence Agency, and that Oswald received "a full-time salary for agent work for doing CIA operational work." Wilcott testified that he was told by other CIA employees that money he had personally disbursed to an encrypted account (RX-ZIM) was for "the Oswald project or for Oswald." Wilcott's testimony was kept secret for decades, but can now be read in full by

That is not an accurate summary.

Mr. WILCOTT - The first time I heard about Oswald being connected in any way with CIA was the day after the Kennedy assassination.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - And how did that come to your attention:
Mr. WILCOTT - Well, I was on day duty for the station. It was a guard-type function at the station, which I worked for overtime. There was a lot of excitement going on at the station after the Kennedy assassination. Towards the end of my tour of duty, I heard certain things about Oswald somehow being connected with the agency, and I didn't really believe this when I heard it, and I thought it was absurd. Then, as time Went on, I began to hear more things in that line.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - I think we had better go over that one more time. When, exactly, was the very first time that you heard or came across information that Oswald was an agent?
Mr. WILCOTT - I heard references to it the day after the assassination.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - And who made these references to Oswald being an agent of the CIA?
Mr. WILCOTT - I can't remember the exact persons. There was talk about it going on at the station, and several months following at the station.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - How many people made this reference to Oswald being an agent of the CIA?
Mr. WILCOTT - At least -- there was at least six or seven people, specifically, who said that they either knew or believed Oswald to be an agent of the CIA.

Mr. GOLDSMITH - At the time that this allegation first came to your attention, did you learn the name of Oswald's Case Offficer at the CIA?
Mr. WILCOTT - No.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - Were there any other times during your stay with the CIA at XXXXXXXXXX Station that you came across information that Oswald had been a CIA agent?
Mr. WILCOTT - Yes.
Mr. GOLDSMITH - When was that?
Mr. WILCOTT - The specific incident was soon after the Kennedy assassination, where an agent, a Case Officer -- I am sure it was a Case Officer -- came up to my window to draw money, and he specifically said in the conversation that ensued, he specifically said, "Well, Jim, the money that I drew the last couple of weeks ago or so was money," either for the Oswald project or for Oswald.

So lots of anonymous rumors and one anonymous person talking about Oswald or an Oswald project.

It's worth looking into, but it's no smoking gun.

[Fiver]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Y2...el=JessConnellThought you might like this one George , the truth is out about LBJ and Mac Wallace . Those prints that were suspected of being Wallaces in the TSBD were tru.

Here is a pro-Conspiracy person debunking the Malcom Wallace Conspiracy theory.

* It has Wallace and Oswald adjusting their rifle scopes on the TSBD 6th floor near a table saw. There was no table saw on the 6th floor.
* It has Wallace, Oswald, and Loy Factor all firing one shot simultaneously at JFK. Every witness account and the photographic evidence contradict this.

And those are only some of the problems.

[Fiver]

Fiver all youve given is an alternitve view , that doesnt mean what i post is wrong !!! [which you havent manage to prove ]. ALL this is what tthe warren commission failed to investigate ,hence the problem with the contradictions and inconsistancies.

I proved your source was repeatedly lying.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Plus the ballistics evidence.

No Conspiracy that had framed Oswald for killing the President would have any reason to also frame him for killing a police.

Exactly Fiver. What would have been the point of adding even more complication and risk to what was already the most convoluted, ill-conceived plot ever?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Technically he's accusing more than four ballistics experts. Newquist testified about the bullets and bullet fragments, but he was part of the HSC Firearms panel.

In April 1977, the select committee sought recommendations for membership for the panel from the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Exa. miners, the Forensic Science Foundation and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. Candidates were to be leading firearms experts who had had no prior affiliation with either the King or the Kennedy assassination cases.

A list of 27 experts was proposed. Five were eliminated initially: three were current or past employees of the FBI; one had authored material on the firearms evidence; and one was unable to undertake the project. The remaining 22 prospects were asked to submit resumes, with information on past affiliations with the case and opinions about the assassination or the firearms evidence. Eighteen responded, 10 of whom did not want to be considered or did not meet the committee's criteria.

The following five experts were chosen to serve on the panel:

John S. Bates, Jr.--Senior firearms examiner in the New York State Police Laboratory at Albany. He has been a lecturer at the New York State Police Academy, New York State Municipal Police Training Council, and various community colleges. Bates is a member of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners, serving as secretary since 1973. In that year, he received the association's Distinguished Member Award. He has written numerous professional articles.

Donald E. Champagne.--Firearm and tool mark examiner with the Florida Department of Criminal Law Enforcement in Tallahassee for the past 10 years. He served in the crime detection laboratory of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Ottawa, Ontario, for 15 years, and he has lectured extensively at the Canadian Police College and other law enforcement agencies. Champagne is president and a distinguished member of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners. He is a member of the Southern Association of Forensic Scientists and the Canadian Society of Forensic Science.

Monty C. Lutz.--Firearm and tool mark analyst with the Wisconsin Regional Crime Laboratory in New Berlin. He has been the chief firearm and tool mark examiner for the U.S. Army. Lutz is a past president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Makers Examiners. He has been named a disthinguished member of the *The same panel members wore also to examine the firearms evidence in the King assassination case. association. He has lectured at colleges and law enforcement schools across the country and is the author of numerous professional publications. He received a B.S. in criminal justice from the University of Nebraska.

Andrew M. Newquist.--Special agent and firearm, tool mark and latent fingerprint examiner for the Iowa Bureau of Criminal Investigation. Newquist is a distinguished member and past president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners and currently serves on its executive committee. He is a member of the International Association for Identification and a lecturer at the Iowa Department of Public Safety.

The panel conducted its examination at the facilities of the Metropolitan Police Department firearm identification section, Washington, D.C Assigned as liaison to the panel and working closely with it as technical assistant was George R. Wilson, senior firearms examiner, Metropolitan Police Department, Washington, D.C., a position he has held for 9 years. The laboratory, which he established, was the first in the department's history. Wilson is second vice president of the Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners. In 1974, he received the association's Distinguished Member Award. During his 25-year tenure with the metropolitan Police Department, he has been awarded over 30 commendations for outstanding and meritorious performance of duty.

All mistaken or liars apparently Fiver. Probably ‘in on it.’

[Herlock Sholmes]

And then Craig corroborates as well.... who was then ostracized for that and a number of other things.

Roger Craig. Yet another crackpot. I’ll say it again…how many conspiracy theory witnesses turn out to be proven liars or loonies? There’s an army of these deadbeats.

https://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/search?q=Roger+Craig

[Fiver]

In 1996 former Deputy Counsel for the House Select Committee on Assassinations Robert Tanenbaum testified at the ARRB hearing in Los Angeles by saying, "the Attorney General of Texas, Henry Wade the District Attorney and Leon Jaworsky counsel to the Attorney General, on the transcript spoke to the Chief Justice and said in substance, as I recall, that they had information from unimpeachable sources that Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI."

Robert Tannenbaum does appear to have said that. We have no idea what the alleged sources were, so we can't evaluate how "unimpeachable" they were. Also note the words "in substance, as I recall". Tannenbaum was recalling events from 3 decades previously, and we have no idea how accurate his recollection was.

If the Attorney General of Texas and the Dallas District attorney were able to find multiple "unimpeachable sources that Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI" , then why hasn't anyone else been able to find all these sources?

And why are we to take Tannenbaum's word when he made false claims in his testimony?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here is a pro-Conspiracy person debunking the Malcom Wallace Conspiracy theory.

* It has Wallace and Oswald adjusting their rifle scopes on the TSBD 6th floor near a table saw. There was no table saw on the 6th floor.
* It has Wallace, Oswald, and Loy Factor all firing one shot simultaneously at JFK. Every witness account and the photographic evidence contradict this.

And those are only some of the problems.

Mac Wallace

[Fiver]

The ''Rifle'' in the video footage being removed from the Tsbd was a 7.65mm Mauser . Not the rifle shown in the catalog pics of the Italian Carcano .

So you're claiming a Conspiracy that was able to plant fake ID's in Oswwald's wallet, forge purchase records, bank records, photographic evidence, witness testimony and ballistics evidence was too stupid to plant the correct rifle? And that they compounded the stupidity by letting multiple newsmen take still and motion pictures of the wrong rifle?

Who's running this Conspiracy - Moe, Larry and Curly?

[Fiver]

Let's chat about "Mac" Wallace, one of the men who has been credibly linked to the JFK assassination on November 22, 1963. In addition to known information a...

So you now believe Oswald was part of a team of assassins? And that there were no shooters on the Grassy Knoll?

Because that's what the source saying Wallace was one of the assassins claims.

[Fiver]

For anyone who smelled gun powder in Dealey Plaza, there is absolutely NO WAY that it came from the 6th floor window of the TSBD. The most likely location? The grassy knoll, where most JFK researchers believe the head kill shot to JFK came from.

And now you don't believe the Mac Wallace story any more, which said that all shots came from the Book Depository?

[cobalt]

Exactly Fiver. What would have been the point of adding even more complication and risk to what was already the most convoluted, ill-conceived plot ever?

If there was a plot, which many believe, then its success can be judged by the many others who refuse to believe it even existed.

Taking into account the warning of us becoming entrenched too deeply in our positions I would like to open up an earlier point made about JD Tippit and his familiarity with the Oak Cliff district. As a patrol officer Tippit would obviously not be rigidly confined to one area in the course of his duties. And as a part time security guard his face would have been fairly well known to a number of Dallas citizens in addition to his being a serving officer for around a dozen years.

However a surprising number of people seem to have seen him regularly in the Oak Cliff district although it was a good few miles from his regular beat. Taxi driver Scroggins said he often saw Tippit driving around but that might not mean much since a taxi driver is bound to cover a fair few miles in the course of his work. Acquila Clemmons also said she had seen Tippit around the area although she was quite far from the shooting and could not have identified him at the time of his killing. The Top Ten record shop was certainly outside his beat but it was reported that on occasion Tippit came in to use the telephone. Workers at the GLOCO station also seem to have known Tippit although it is not clear if they did so socially or, as seems more likely, through their work. A couple who were passing by the GLOCO by on the day (I'm guessing they were local) knew him well enough to wave to him in his patrol car. And the manageress of Dobbs Eating House said that Tippit was a fairly regular customer around breakfast time which seems odd since there must have been plenty of cafes in his own district.

The CT position is fairly well established: that Tippit was already in Oak Cliff for a reason- he was seen at the GLOCO station at 12.40- and the radio instruction for him to go to Oak Cliff, timed at 12.45, was part of a later cover up. I'm never comfortable with the notion of false evidence being introduced into a conspiracy after the fact since it complicates the truth and has the potential to be more damning than silence. So I remain an agnostic on that particular element. But Tippit does, on the surface at least, seem to have been out of his assigned beat more than would be expected.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It would be interesting/instructive to know what those that favour conspiracy believe happened as there are different possibilities. This is purely out of curiosity and isn’t an excuse for a bit of point scoring as you all know the position of those that favour the lone gunman.

So could I ask which you support?

a) Oswald firing from the TSBD plus a Grassy Knoll gunman.
b) Someone else firing from the TSBD (with Oswald not firing at all) and a Grassy Knoll gunman.
c) No one firing from the TSBD but a gunman firing from another location plus a Grassy Knoll gunman.
d) Someone firing from somewhere other than the TSBD or the Grassy Knoll.

[Fiver]

It would be interesting/instructive to know what those that favour conspiracy believe happened as there are different possibilities. This is purely out of curiosity and isn’t an excuse for a bit of point scoring as you all know the position of those that favour the lone gunman.

So could I ask which you support?

a) Oswald firing from the TSBD plus a Grassy Knoll gunman.
b) Someone else firing from the TSBD (with Oswald not firing at all) and a Grassy Knoll gunman.
c) No one firing from the TSBD but a gunman firing from another location plus a Grassy Knoll gunman.
d) Someone firing from somewhere other than the TSBD or the Grassy Knoll.

That's only scratching the surface on Conspiracist positions.
e) Oswald and two other men firing from the TSBD. (The Mac Wallace version)
f) Oswald firing from the TSBD and another gunman from the Underpass. (The Sherry Fiester version.)
g) Shooters in the TSBD, Daltex Building, and the Grassy Knoll, none of them Oswald. (The Oliver Stone version.)
h) Shooters in the TSBD, Daltex Building, the Grassy Knoll, behind the Stone Wall, and from the Storm Drain all of them homosexuals. (The Jim Garrison version.)
i) JFK was accidentally shot by Agent Hickey in the followup car. (The Bonar Menninger version.)
j} JFK was deliberately shot by his own limo driver. (The William Cooper version.)
k) JFK was deliberately shot by his own wife.
l) JFK was killed by JD Tippit.
m) JFK was killed by a poisoned dark fired by the Umbrella Man.
n) Oswald killed JFK, but there was second, unrelated gunman on the Grassy Knoll. (The Norman Mailer version.)
o) A 28 man (including Oswald) assassination team. (The Stephanie Caruana version.)