JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[scottnapa]

I wasn't aware he actually wrote a book , I must read that.

Yes.The book is very Dallas centric, so a little bit of Madeleine Brown, etc., but he's lived through it. He certainly was a victim. He has a story to tell..

[FISHY1118]

Yes.The book is very Dallas centric, so a little bit of Madeleine Brown, etc., but he's lived through it. He certainly was a victim. He has a story to tell..

Thanks for that scott, Indeed ,and just like Connally they were victims ,they were there , they lived through the whole thing , yet some posters think 62 years later they know better . Staggering.

[Lewis C]

There are several problems with that theory.
* Oswald told Frazier that Oswald was getting curtain rods for his own apartment, not for someone else.
* Oswald supposedly picked up the curtain rods at Ruth Paine's but he didn't have any curtain rods stored there.
* Ruth Paine did own some spare curtain rods, but they were still there.
* Oswald did not arrive at the door of the Book Depository empty-handed, Frazier observed him entering.
* Oswald said he only brought a lunch bag, not a long package, so either he or both Randle and Frazier were lying.
* No curtain rods were found in the Book Depository.
* Nobody left the Book Depository with curtain rods.

Another problem with the theory is that if Oswald gave up the package before entering the TSBD, then why was the wrapping paper on the 6th floor of that building?

[FISHY1118]

The Warren Commission tests used bullets fired directly at cadaver wrists.

Firing bullett directly into the wrist of cadavers was not an accurate test. 1992 tests by Failure Analysis Associates with lower velocity, as would be expected from a bullet that had passed through Connally's chest, did not result in bullet fragmentation from striking cadaver wrists, and the test bullets were generally less deformed than CE 399.

Estimates are that after passing through JFK's neck and Connally's chest, CE 399 would have been traveling around 300 meters per second. The series of pics you posted from an unattributed source using a different bullet against an unknown target show little deformation and small or no fragments at speeds of 730 meters per second or less.

So why didn't the headshot just go thru and thru, like the SBT, and come out pristine - these were two bullets, from the same lot, from the same rifle...

ACTING as if they were not....

So show me the /any evidence the fragments of JFKs head shot bullet were fired from the rifle that was found in the tsbd . ?



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[Fiver]

So why didn't the headshot just go thru and thru, like the SBT, and come out pristine - these were two bullets, from the same lot, from the same rifle...

[B]ACTING as if they were not....

Bullet CE399 was not pristine. Examination end on shows significant deformation.

The throat shot struck flesh. The head shot struck skull bone. You can expect a bullet to behave differently when striking different substances.

So show me the /any evidence the fragments of JFKs head shot bullet were fired from the rifle that was found in the tsbd . ?

Testimony Of Robert A. Frazier. Frazier was able to compare the markings of shell casing of bullets fired from Oswald's rifle with the shell casings found in the sniper's nest (CE 543, CE 544 and CE 545). All three matched the test casings. Frazier was able to compare the markings on bullets fired from Oswald's rifle with the markings on the stretcher bullet (CE 399), the bullet fragment from seat cushion (CE 567), and the bullet fragment from front seat (CE 569). All three matched the test bullets.

Affidavit of Charles L. Killion. Killion did independent testing and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

Testimony of Joseph D. Nichol. Nichol did independent testing and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions..

Testimony of Donald E Champagne. Champagne did independent testing of the shell casings and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

Testimony of Andrew M Newquist. Newquist did independent testing of the bullet and bullet fragments and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

[FISHY1118]

Bullet CE399 was not pristine. Examination end on shows significant deformation.

The throat shot struck flesh. The head shot struck skull bone. You can expect a bullet to behave differently when striking different substances.



Testimony Of Robert A. Frazier. Frazier was able to compare the markings of shell casing of bullets fired from Oswald's rifle with the shell casings found in the sniper's nest (CE 543, CE 544 and CE 545). All three matched the test casings. Frazier was able to compare the markings on bullets fired from Oswald's rifle with the markings on the stretcher bullet (CE 399), the bullet fragment from seat cushion (CE 567), and the bullet fragment from front seat (CE 569). All three matched the test bullets.

Affidavit of Charles L. Killion. Killion did independent testing and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

Testimony of Joseph D. Nichol. Nichol did independent testing and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions..

Testimony of Donald E Champagne. Champagne did independent testing of the shell casings and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

Testimony of Andrew M Newquist. Newquist did independent testing of the bullet and bullet fragments and agreed with all of Frazier's conclusions.

There was no significant deformation at all to c399, it was indeed pristine in relation to the 8 wounds it was supposed to have committed to jfk and Connally.

I'm not talking about shell casing , you haven't answered the question .

Show evidence the fragments in jfks "head" were from a bullet fired from the rifle found in the tsbd. ?

[Herlock Sholmes]

You're quoting http://22november1963.org.uk/single-...-assassination again, but not giving them any credit. If you're going to parrot someone's ideas at least give them credit.

As previously noted, that site has posted provably false statements.

That site is deliberately ignoring most of Connally's testimony.
* Connally believed there were only 3 shots fired.
* Connally believed all 3 shots came from the Book Depository.
* Connally believed all three shots were fired by Oswald.
* Connally believed there was no Conspiracy.

No one who favors the single bullet theory has accused Connally of lying, merely of being mistaken about how many of the three shots hit. Please stop misrepresenting the views of people who disagree with you.

This is an incredibly important distinction that you are right to mention Fiver. No one is accusing Connally of lying (why would he?) We leave that repetition of ‘lies’ ‘fake’ ‘forgery’ to the conspiracy side. What is being said is that Connally was mistaken. An incident that took a split second, in which he suffered great trauma and where the other person that was shot was sitting behind him.

And isn’t it worth noting how the ‘accusing someone of lying’ suggestion is thrown out as a form of criticism and yet the conspiracy side have no issue with accusing everyone who doesn’t ‘conform’ as liars. Humes, Boswell, Finck, Ruth Paine, the whole Warren Commission to name but a few.

[FISHY1118]

Here one for the "why didn't he do this "or "why didn't he do that " gang.

Well why the hell didn't Oswald fire at jfk as he was coming right towards him from Houston st ? . This was the perfect time ,its literally a no miss , no escape for a even ordinary shot sniper. Even better still ,the turn from Houston into Elm st put the limo so close to the tsbd Oswald could nearly put the rifle at jfk head point blank. Seriously who ever fired from that building ,if his intent was to kill the president this is surely a monty for that result , a ten year old Texas farm boy could have pulled that off with ease.

But wait there's more Oswald waits till the limo is driving away from him and fires his first shot some 150 meters down the road. !!!!

Now I know I don't like the "why would he why wouldn't he " game , but its getting a lot of posts from the other side so I thought I'd give one to the good guys .

The warren commission is a lie ,there was a 4th shot and a second gunman.

The truth will out soon enough.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks for that scott, Indeed ,and just like Connally they were victims ,they were there , they lived through the whole thing , yet some posters think 62 years later they know better . Staggering.

Marina and Ruth were there at the time. They said that Oswald had a rifle in the garage. After the assassination it was gone. Why do you and others think that you know better?

Buell Frazer was there at the time and saw Oswald carrying a long package to work. After the assassination it disappeared. Why do you and others think that you know better?

Howard Brennan said that he saw a man looking very much like Oswald in the sixth floor window with a rifle. Why do you and others think that you know better?

We can all latch on to one particular piece of evidence Fishy and wave it around as if it’s proof positive when it’s nothing of the kind. How many times in the ripper case do we discuss how witnesses can be mistaken? You appear unwilling to consider this in the case of Governor Connally. Could his circumstances have been more difficult for making judgment calls? The timespan, the pain, the shock, the fact that Kennedy was behind him, the fact that he said with equal certainty the he only heard 3 shots and that they all came from behind. Three shots from behind means that he was simply mistaken about him and Kennedy being hit by separate shots and as Fiver has pointed out (numerous times) how did this 4th bullet vanish?

Ask any investigator how much caution they would apply to the testimony of someone that had just been shot?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Here one for the "why didn't he do this "or "why didn't he do that " gang.

Well why the hell didn't Oswald fire at jfk as he was coming right towards him from Houston st ? . This was the perfect time ,its literally a no miss , no escape for a even ordinary shot sniper. Even better still ,the turn from Houston into Elm st put the limo so close to the tsbd Oswald could nearly put the rifle at jfk head point blank. Seriously who ever fired from that building ,if his intent was to kill the president this is surely a monty for that result , a ten year old Texas farm boy could have pulled that off with ease.

But wait there's more Oswald waits till the limo is driving away from him and fires his first shot some 150 meters down the road. !!!!

Now I know I don't like the "why would he why wouldn't he " game , but its getting a lot of posts from the other side so I thought I'd give one to the good guys .

The warren commission is a lie ,there was a 4th shot and a second gunman.

The truth will out soon enough.

This is part of for the course Fishy. The problem is that none of the ‘what if’s’ or ‘why didn’t he’s’ every get answered. And yet here you are asking a question. I’m afraid that it’s always the conspiracy side demanding answers (which are given) and yet we are often faced with a yawning silence or a bit of side-stepping.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Im afaide that last post is little above your pay grade as understanding goes . What more can i say except you just ignore the evidence that directly contradicts the warren commissions magic bullet theory. You cant prove its wrong ,you merely as always accuse everyone else of being wrong ,mistaken , liars , .What a terrible sad stance to take. .

Guess ill just keep posting more evidence of the Warren Commision lie .

Firstly, a little insulting don’t you think?

Secondly, the level of irony in this post is off the scale. Look at the emboldened part. Can you really post without seeing it Fishy. You, and others, believe in conspiracy which is wholly reliant on calling people liars. Of yelling fake, fraud, forgery and he was in on it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Thanks for that scott, Indeed ,and just like Connally they were victims ,they were there , they lived through the whole thing , yet some posters think 62 years later they know better . Staggering.

What about the people that were there who don’t agree with your opinion and who don’t support conspiracy? I can’t see the point of you taking that kind of moral high ground as if you are being sensitive to the feelings of those around at the time. You are simply cherrypicking the ones that you feel support your point and then finding excuses to dismiss or ignore the inconvenient.

Ill ask again…and I’m guessing that this will be a perfect illustration of a conspiracy theorist avoiding and question - you consider Connally trustworthy on the issue of whether he was or wasn’t struck by the same bullet as Kennedy. Therefore do you allow him equal trustworthiness when he stated as a fact that there were only 3 shots and that they all came from behind?

[Herlock Sholmes]

In a 4 part CBS series from June 1967 called The Warren Report Connally said this:

"The only way that I could ever reconcile my memory of what happened and what occurred, with respect to the One-Bullet Theory is .... it HAD to be the SECOND bullet that might have hit us both."

In the same programme he also said:

All I can say, with any finality, if the Single-Bullet Theory IS correct, then it had to be the second bullet that hit President Kennedy and me."


Hardly conclusive here is he Fishy?

[Herlock Sholmes]

So why didn't the headshot just go thru and thru, like the SBT, and come out pristine - these were two bullets, from the same lot, from the same rifle...

ACTING as if they were not....

So show me the /any evidence the fragments of JFKs head shot bullet were fired from the rifle that was found in the tsbd . ?



?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?

That the bullet was pristine is a myth. The evidence of the bullets has been provided so I really can’t see why you are asking for it.

A grassy knoll gunman who fled quicker than Usain Bolt and left zero trace of his existence still, apparently, had time to look around, find, and pick up the casing. Do you think that makes ‘sense’?

[Herlock Sholmes]

From the DVP website. On the alleged ‘pristine’ bullet Professor McAdams said:

"When a bullet just like Commission Exhibit 399 is fired through a human wrist bone at 2,000 [feet] per second, it is almost certain to be badly mangled. But when CE 399 hit Connally's wrist it had been slowed by transiting Kennedy's torso and tumbling through Connally's chest. When it finally hit the hard radius bone, it was traveling about 1,000 feet per second. Dr. Martin Fackler, President of the International Wound Ballistics Association, fired a round identical to Oswald's bullet through a human wrist at 1,100 feet per second.”

The test bullet was less damaged than 399.

Then in a 2004 documentary the same type of bullet was fired through several feet of log before being prised out. The bullet looked as if it had t been fired. A man called Dr. John Lattimer also fired the same type of bullet through wood with similar results.

Before anyone says but what about the head shot bullet disintegrating? Dr. Alfred Olivier (the Army’s wound ballistics expert) did a skull test for the WC then Dr. Lattimer did independent skull tests in the 1970’s. The results were ‘strikingly similar’ to the bullet fragments found at the scene.