JFK Assassination Documents to be released this year

[Herlock Sholmes]

Also strange how people accept these claims above the two best Snipers of the Vietnam War years would couldnt repeat the shots that Oswald supposily made .

Just for interest sake the term ''Marksman'' is the lowest rank in the chain when it comes to sniper firing ablity.

And Oswald was categorised as a ‘sharpshooter’ which was the middle three ratings.

[Herlock Sholmes]

''It hasn’t been proved. Are you making this up?. Do you really think that plotters would have been so mind-bogglingly, earth-shattering moronic that they would parade a different rifle in front of the watching world, hoping by some miracle that no one would spot it? You can’t believe that surely Fishy?'

This is a totally ridiculous statement, nobody knew at the time what was going on Herlock, this was playing out in real time .These events were happening one after the other, they had no idea at the time the rifle they found wasnt Oswalds ,it wasnt until later they realized it wasnt so of course their going to try to show the world the murder weapon just as they did believing infact it belonged to Oswald . Jeeez Louise its not rocket science mate

.

But this was supposedly a plot Fishy. Plots are planned in advance and then covered up by the authorities. So I’ll ask again…..how could those plotters have allowed a second rifle to have been displayed in public before claiming that an entirely different one was used. The idea is preposterous. Surely you can see how impossible that is to believe? The rifle was simply misidentified early on. Conspiracy theorists have done what conspiracy theorists do…..latch onto a minor error and magnify it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Herlock its not made up at all it exactly what happen, let your own eyes see it, the FBI own own sworn agent affidavit claimed it as a different rifle . You can see it being taken out of the TSBD as clear as day, its not Oswalds Carcano Rifle . Source ''The Innocence of Lee Havey Oswald'' i suggest you reseach it, [but you wont]

.

Watching one documentary or reading one book doesn’t constitute ‘research’ Fishy. It’s by an author with a theory. I’m not saying that he’s dishonest but there has to be a possibility of bias when assessing evidence. Why is this guy trustworthy and yet a man who spent 20 years researching and writing a 1000 book on the subject isnt. Of course people will say that he was just a ‘Warren Commission apologist’ but he was a highly respected prosecutor but I find it difficult to believe that he’d choose to spend 20 of his life just to falsely defend a lie.

[Herlock Sholmes]

''The shell casings and the rifle were found at the same window. How have you got them on different corners?''

The casing were found at 1.03 pm the Rifle at 1.22pm on the same floor, not in the same spot, Seymour Weitzman claimed he located it in the opposite corner of the building hence the 19 min time difference between the finding of the shellls and the casings

.

This is the same Weitzman that categorically confirmed that the rifle found on the sixth floor was the Mannlicher Carcano. The Mauser issue was the result of an earlier misidentification by someone who never handled the gun, just saw it from a few feet away.

So if your original point is correct then we have plotter leaving casing and shells at opposite ends of the 6th floor. More brilliant planning. Who were these geniuses?

[Herlock Sholmes]

HS,
There are indeed always two interpretations to the evidence and if those who reject the lone gunman theory are indeed the loudest advocates then you are going a fair way to redressing the balance. I can’t see that quoting Bugliosi as an authority is any more convincing than quoting Jim Garrison. And I doubt either attorney would have considered attention to detail ‘nitpicking.’
Much of your previous post at 10.10 seemed based on the assumption that Oswald was the lone assassin so that you ended up answering rhetorical questions set by yourself. I’ll deal with a few. Apologies if I resort to making assertions for reasons of brevity.

1. There WAS an escape plan and it succeeded. It’s just that it didn’t involve Oswald.

Does this mean that you’re suggesting that Oswald was completely unaware of what was going on? If he knew what was going on but wasn’t a shooter then he’d would have been a danger of talking. If he was only one of a group of shooters then he would have been a danger of talking. If he was completely innocent then we would have to ask how they could have set up the so-called sniper’s nest without anyone else knowing, just at the right time, and when luckily no one was watching the parade from that floor.

2. Oswald was not supposed to be free to talk, I agree. No proper record was taken of his interviews following arrest so there is no reliable evidence of what he admitted, alleged or denied. Which includes stuff about ‘curtain rods.’

But he told his lift Wesley Frazier that the long parcel in wrapping paper that he was carrying contained curtain rods. The same kind of wrapping paper that was found on the 6th floor.

3. The slow turn required on Elm Street made that an ideal spot for any assassination. The planned JFK visit to Dallas had been under consideration for almost a year before the fateful day. That’s plenty time to plan an assassination.

I can’t put my hand on the exact quote but the route was changed very close to the assassination. It would have been difficult enough to have found someone willing to shoot the President but one with military rifle training who just happened to work at a building on the recently altered motorcade route. Although, I suppose it might be claimed that high ranking conspirators could have had a hand in altering the route.

4. Your point about trained killers leaving not a trace is very probably near to the truth. But that could never have been acceptable to the American public so a ‘patsy’ had to be provided to make the narrative palatable.

Hi Cobalt,

But the President would have been just as dead. Questions were always going to be asked even after an investigation. The plotters would have known that a massive, in-depth investigation would have been in order and with the catastrophic risks of discovery why would they complicate things with oddballs like Oswald, dodgy traceable gun purchases, faked photos, allowing the public to see 2 guns, claiming casings and shells were found at different ends of the building, the utterly pointless murder of Tippit.

All the details of the case are debatable of course and I’ve long since stopped reading into the case and I’d never claim ever to have been anything like an expert (even when I was reading stuff) but I just look at the thing as a whole I there’s not a single set of circumstances that make believe for a second in this kind of alleged conspiracy. Others disagree of course and that fine but to me it doesn’t make even a grain of sense.

[cobalt]

Oswald had been rated a fair shot by military standards but was out of practice as far as can be ascertained. No one so far as I am aware has ever replicated the three alleged assassination shots with that type of bolt action rifle at the first time of asking. Others have matched and surpassed it after a little practice. But none of them were firing at a live target, far less the POTUS.

Does Bugliosi explain how Oswald managed to assemble the rifle once he had brought it to the TSBD? Buell Fraser has remained consistent in his estimation of the length of Oswald’s package.

[GBinOz]

This is the same Weitzman that categorically confirmed that the rifle found on the sixth floor was the Mannlicher Carcano. The Mauser issue was the result of an earlier misidentification by someone who never handled the gun, just saw it from a few feet away.

Weitzman's Affidavit shows a 7.65 Mauser. Fact...not conjecture.

[c.d.]

Buell Fraser has remained consistent in his estimation of the length of Oswald’s package.

That probably could have been worded a little better.

c.d.

[cobalt]

c.d.
Point taken!

Reliability of witness statements is often a problem in a high profile case where the police are under pressure to secure a conviction. From what I have seen of Sam Holland and Buell Fraser they impress me as honest men reporting events as accurately as they can remember.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Weitzman's Affidavit shows a 7.65 Mauser. Fact...not conjecture.

And in a 1967 interview Weitzman said that the 6.5 mil Mannlicher Carcano was:

”the rifle we found. It was strictly a mistaken identity which anyone could make. If you know anything about guns, a Mauser is a Mauser. What make it is, what country it was made in, can easily be misidentified because mostly your Mauser mechanism looks very similar.”

He went on to say that the Carcano was:

”a Mauser-action rifle.” And “an Italian Mauser”

So that should clear that point up but as Bugliosi says - in the world of conspiracy theorists there are no mistakes, only sinister implications.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Buell Fraser has remained consistent in his estimation of the length of Oswald’s package.

That probably could have been worded a little better.

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Oswald had been rated a fair shot by military standards but was out of practice as far as can be ascertained. No one so far as I am aware has ever replicated the three alleged assassination shots with that type of bolt action rifle at the first time of asking. Others have matched and surpassed it after a little practice. But none of them were firing at a live target, far less the POTUS.

Does Bugliosi explain how Oswald managed to assemble the rifle once he had brought it to the TSBD? Buell Fraser has remained consistent in his estimation of the length of Oswald’s package.

But his wife said that he did go practicing his rifle. I may be mis-remembering Cobalt but something tells me that somewhere Marina might have said that she’d gone with him at times? I’m not certain about that bit though as my memory could be playing tricks.

Im unsure what you mean about the assembly of the rifle but one of Oswald’s prints found by police officer Lieutenant Day was in a position that could only be accessed by someone who had handled the rifle in a disassembled state.

[cobalt]

Marina Oswald would have been very vulnerable to pressure given her invidious situation, a young mother with a perfunctory knowledge of the English language in what was to her a foreign country. So I would be sceptical about her reliability as a witness. In later years, once her daughters were independent, she backtracked on some of her earlier statements.

The only two references to Oswald firing a rifle on his return from the USSR (aside from the alleged Walker shooting) are disputed. One appears to have been a strange attempt to draw attention to himself on a firing range by firing at a neighbouring target instead of his own. On that occasion it is claimed he arrived by car although there is no official record of Oswald owning a vehicle or possessing a licence.

I try to be even handed and also discount stories from ex-marines about Oswald being a very poor shot. Oswald seems to have displayed poor attitude and application in his short life so although I can well imagine him ‘acting up’ and missing targets during practice, I have little doubt he could aim and fire a rifle effectively if required.

My point about the Carcano was that Buell Fraser has remained specific that the lunch bag Oswald carried in that day fitted under his armpit which would mean that if it contained the rifle then the rifle would have had to be dis-assembled. There remains the possibility for the LG theory that the rifle was brought in by Oswald at an earlier date.

[Joshua Rogan]

But his wife said that he did go practicing his rifle. I may be mis-remembering Cobalt but something tells me that somewhere Marina might have said that she’d gone with him at times? I’m not certain about that bit though as my memory could be playing tricks.

There was a witness I think who said he saw Oswald firing his rifle at a shooting range in October. He too identified the gun as a Mauser. So either he made the same mistake as the initial police, or Oswald had two very similar rifles.

Im unsure what you mean about the assembly of the rifle but one of Oswald’s prints found by police officer Lieutenant Day was in a position that could only be accessed by someone who had handled the rifle in a disassembled state.

This from the Warren Commission report, so entirely untrustworthy of course;

"Only if disassembled could the rifle fit into the paper bag found near the window from which the shots were fired. A firearms expert with the FBI assembled the rifle in 6 minutes using a 10-cent coin as a tool, and he could disassemble it more rapidly. While the rifle may have already been disassembled when Oswald arrived home on Thursday, he had ample time that evening to disassemble the rifle and insert it into the paper bag."

And;

"Oswald's palmprint on the underside of the barrel demonstrates that he handled the rifle when it was disassembled. A palmprint could not be placed on this portion of the rifle, when assembled, because the wooden foregrip covers the barrel at this point."

[Joshua Rogan]

My point about the Carcano was that Buell Fraser has remained specific that the lunch bag Oswald carried in that day fitted under his armpit which would mean that if it contained the rifle then the rifle would have had to be dis-assembled. There remains the possibility for the LG theory that the rifle was brought in by Oswald at an earlier date.

Doesn't Fraser say that (unlike every other day) Oswald didn't take a lunch bag in that day, only a long parcel said to contain curtain rods.

Granted, he didn't think the parcel was long enough to contain even the disassembled rifle, but it's easy enough to reassemble with minimal tools.