Jack and the Thames Torso Murders: A New Ripper? by Drew Gray and Andrew Wise

[jerryd]

Wilbore intrigues me, too, Abbey. He has an interesting back story with connections to Peterborough and Leicester which matches Alice McKenzie.

Hi Gary!

And Tottenham.

[Fisherman]

This was almost definitely the Torso killer.

Then they're three years off on his age...

[jerryd]

Then they're three years off on his age...

Actually, two years off.

[Fisherman]

Thanks Abby.

I appreciate your confidence in my work on Wildbore. I think the lengthy article would be more realistic than the book. Hopefully someday I can come through on that. In the meantime I will continue to post anything else related to him and the torsos that I can dig up.

Help me out here, Jerry, was it the Frederick W born 1842 or the one born in 1867 that found the torso?

[jerryd]

Help me out here, Jerry, was it the Frederick W born 1842 or the one born in 1867 that found the torso?

Neither actually.

Frederick J. Wildbore, born in 1855

[MrBarnett]

Hi Gary!

And Tottenham.

That’s right, Jerry.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Gary!

And Tottenham.

Tottenham London N17, or Tottenham Court Road London W1? There's quite a difference.

[MrBarnett]

Tottenham London N17, or Tottenham Court Road London W1? There's quite a difference.

Tottenham, N17 (and N15), not TCR, W1 (and NW1).

Wildbore lived there at one time and Alice reportedly new a man from there.

[Sam Flynn]

Tottenham, N17 (and N15), not TCR, W1 (and NW1).

Wildbore lived there at one time and Alice reportedly new a man from there.

Ta. As this is a torso thread, I needed to clarify the situation.

BTW, I associate N15 more with Seven Sisters, but I take your point.

[MrBarnett]

Ta. As this is a torso thread, I needed to clarify the situation.

BTW, I associate N15 more with Seven Sisters, but I take your point.

I had to check, Gareth, I’m not a postcode nerd, but I thought the northern end of TCR might just have been NW1.

We did some research into a possible Pitts (McKenzie) and Wildbore connection over on the Forums a little while ago. I don’t think we found a family or personal connection, but the geographical (Peterborough and Leicester) connections were there.

[Michael W Richards]

I have never and will never buy any book that presumes killer and then spends a bunch of pages trying to prove it. I don't know how this book does that specifically, but if it anything like Hardimans file here..."

Robert Hills suggests that as all the victims were middle aged mothers, with the exception of Mary Kelly who was more his wife's age, Hardiman was driven to murder by a hatred of mothers in general. He then proposes an alternative motive that Hardiman was avenging his daughter's death and that he suffered from pre-crime stress, and may have contracted veneral disease. In his favour as a Ripper suspect Hardiman was the right age, 29 and knew the local area well, having lived there all his life. He would have also possessed some skill with a knife and may have been familiar with (and contracted) syphilis from the local prostitutes. His occupation would have enabled him to work alone and he may have perceived prostitutes as the spreaders of disease, contributing to his wife and daughters death. He would having lived there at one time, have been familiar with 29 Hanbury Street, it's layout and exit route where Annie Chapman was murdered. He may also have, due to his occupation, been a visitor to Barber's horse slaughterer's yard situated only 150 yards from where the body of Mary Ann Nichols was subsequently discovered...."

What a croc. That's a fact based theory? Or pure fantasy...

[Sam Flynn]

I had to check, Gareth, I’m not a postcode nerd, but I thought the northern end of TCR might just have been NW1.

Re my reference to N15... When I was at University I lived in Tottenham (the N17 bit), sharing a house with a Scouse friend, Stavros, who was of Greek Cypriot descent. Stav's somewhat elderly father would spend about half the year in Liverpool, and the rest at his home in Cyprus, from where he'd often send over "food parcels" of Hellenic comestibles for his poor student son. Stavros would share them with the rest of the house, bless him, and the first time he did so I picked up a packet of dolmades and tried to read the Greek on the back. I didn't need any Greek to read the address of the manufacturing company, which was in English; turned out that the dolmades, as well as many of the other goodies in the food parcel, had been made in Seven Sisters, London N15. We could have nipped down there personally and saved Mr Georgiou the postage!

[MrBarnett]

Re my reference to N15... When I was at University I lived in Tottenham (the N17 bit), sharing a house with a Scouse friend, Stavros, who was of Greek Cypriot descent. Stav's somewhat elderly father would spend about half the year in Liverpool, and the rest at his home in Cyprus, from where he'd often send over "food parcels" of Hellenic comestibles for his poor student son. Stavros would share them with the rest of the house, bless him, and the first time he did so I picked up a packet of dolmades and tried to read the Greek on the back. I didn't need any Greek to read the address of the manufacturing company, which was in English; turned out that the dolmades, as well as many of the other goodies in the food parcel, had been made in Seven Sisters, London N15. We could have nipped down there personally and saved Mr Georgiou the postage!

Dolmades made in Seven Sisters?

Leaf it out!

[Sam Flynn]

Dolmades made in Seven Sisters?

Leaf it out!

Vine not?

[MrBarnett]

Vine not?

They’d kofta lot more.