Packer and Schwartz

[Jeff Leahy]

As you pass Goulston street heading down wentworth street shops become very small in size...

Photos finish at No One wentworth Street

Last shot heads back unto Gouldston Street, I've marked in red where i believe the original stairway, where graffiti and apron were found

I'm happy to be corrected if anyone thinks I have it wrong, i'm not a tour guide, but I think this is where the original was

Yours Jeff

Google street view...cool yes...hopefully i have the graffiti location correct?

[S.Brett]

I've marked in red where i believe the original stairway, where graffiti and apron were found

I'm happy to be corrected if anyone thinks I have it wrong, i'm not a tour guide, but I think this is where the original was

I think you are correct...

The George Yard picture-Furnishing House- (Post 880):

This is my idea of Cox´s view of the suspect´s shop! The suspect left the shop turned directly into a street which led to Leman Street.

Please take pictures of Wentworth Street (north and south side) between Goulston Street and George Yard.

Yours Karsten.

[S.Brett]

Please take pictures of Wentworth Street (north and south side) between Goulston Street and George Yard.

Sorry Jeff, between Goulston Street and Old Castle Street!

[Wickerman]

The Daily Telegraph, Tuesday, 2 October, 1888:

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/daily_telegraph/dt881002.html

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station by a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself. Upon him were found 1s 4˝d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman." (1 October 1888)

Hi Karsten.
On the face of it the above sounds intriguing, but the paragraph continues with:

"...At the station he said, in reply to the inspector, that he had walked from Southampton, and belonged to the Royal Sussex Regiment. An examination of his boots was not confirmatory of his statement about his travels, and he was detained that inquiries might be made. No blood was found upon his clothes, nor any weapon likely to have inflicted the wounds. No importance is attached to this arrest, and the man has since been liberated."

So he was held while inquiries were made, subsequently he was released. So his claims must have checked out.

[Pcdunn]

Hi Jon,

They ignored the razor? It must not have had any blood on it. I suppose it would only work for slashing, not piercing, anyway?

[S.Brett]

subsequently he was released.

...and shadowed by the police?

Hi Jon!

he seemed unable to give any account of himself... walked from Southampton...An examination of his boots was not confirmatory of his statement about his travels...

Just thoughts...

If the police followed the man they would have found out where the man was living... maybe, at the police station he changed his "unable to give any account of himself"... and suddenly he was able to give account of himself... who knows...

If this man was "Kosminski" and his family brought him in an East End Infirmary after he was released from the police station in Leman Street all the time the police did not let him "out of sight"...

Karsten.

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

They ignored the razor? It must not have had any blood on it. I suppose it would only work for slashing, not piercing, anyway?

Hi Pat.

That could well be the case.
This story appears to taken place on the Monday, 1st, so as the post-mortem had been conducted the previous afternoon, Sunday, they would have known about any internal wounds produced by a long pointed instrument, likely the razor was too short and not pointed?

[Paddy]

Correction to my earlier post on page 83

The police on examination found that the murdered woman's husband was a much older man than the individual now detained and without sending for Catherine Eddowes sister , they let the man go.
The police now have under close observation in connection with the Whitechapel murder a man now inmate of the East End infirmary who was admitted since the murder under suspicious circumstances.

I found a news article regarding the highlighted statement above. Apparently the police were looking for Catherine Eddowes husband. They had found one who was asking a pub landlord in Clerkenwell to sign some papers and his name was Conway. The police must have brought him in then found he was not Eddowes ex partner Thomas Conway as he was too young, and let him go.

The second part is still interesting though. I previously thought the two might be connected but it seems they are not.

Fantastic pictures Jeff, takes me back to my schooldays. ! My dad used to take me up Petticoat Lane and Club Row most sundays. Some of the sellers were comical and very entertaining.....

Pat.......................

[Jeff Leahy]

Correction to my earlier post on page 83
Fantastic pictures Jeff, takes me back to my schooldays. ! My dad used to take me up Petticoat Lane and Club Row most sundays. Some of the sellers were comical and very entertaining.....

Pat.......................

Thanks Pat.. I will pursue my journey for a number of reasons..

It had not occurred to me before doing the walk, how close the City PC patrols and the MET patrols actually were...

So my venture into Aldgate and the line between Goulston street and the City boundary is next

Many thanks

Yours Jeff

[Wickerman]

Just thoughts...

If the police followed the man they would have found out where the man was living... maybe, at the police station he changed his "unable to give any account of himself"... and suddenly he was able to give account of himself... who knows...

Hi Karsten.

The way I read it, and in keeping with procedure, I think the constable came across this man on the street and stopped to question him, which is when he did not give an account of himself.
For what its worth, I read this bit below as what occurred out on the street.

"...a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself."


Whereas the rest of the paragraph refers to being at Leman-street:

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station .
.
.
Upon him were found 1s 4˝d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman. At the station he said, in reply to the inspector, that he had walked from Southampton, and belonged to the Royal Sussex Regiment. An examination of his boots was not confirmatory of his statement about his travels, and he was detained that inquiries might be made. No blood was found upon his clothes, nor any weapon likely to have inflicted the wounds. No importance is attached to this arrest, and the man has since been liberated."

If this man was "Kosminski"..

It's having Kozminski claim to belong to the Royal Sussex Regiment that doesn't feel right.

He would have been required to give his address at the station, so no need to follow him to find that out. They will not let him leave unless they are satisfied no suspicion is to be attached to him.

As for the bit about checking his boots. How are they supposed to determine whether he walked from Southampton?
I think it more likely they checked his boots for blood, and because footprints were likely found in the blood around Eddowes body - that's why they checked his boots - in my opinion.

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Jon,

I think they could tell from looking at the boot soles whether someone had been accustomed to walking a long distance, from the signs of wear, maybe holes, perhaps the type of soil or mud on them. If the man's boots were relatively clean and whole, perhaps he hadn't tramped from Southampton after all?
We forget just how much walking people really did, back before automobiles were common.

[lynn cates]

not dead

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"Mac doesn't even know what happened to Kozminski after that (I believe still is)"

But he, alone, recognised that Kosminski was not dead.

Cheers.
LC

[S.Brett]

Hi Karsten.

The way I read it, and in keeping with procedure, I think the constable came across this man on the street and stopped to question him, which is when he did not give an account of himself.
For what its worth, I read this bit below as what occurred out on the street.

"...a constable who found him prowling about not far from Mitre-street. His face was haggard, and he seemed unable to give any account of himself."


Whereas the rest of the paragraph refers to being at Leman-street:

"a man was, later in the day, brought to the Leman-street Police-station .
.
.
Upon him were found 1s 4˝d in money and a razor, and round his throat was a woollen scarf of a violet colour, upon which were several long hairs, supposed to be those of a woman. At the station he said, in reply to the inspector, that he had walked from Southampton, and belonged to the Royal Sussex Regiment. An examination of his boots was not confirmatory of his statement about his travels, and he was detained that inquiries might be made. No blood was found upon his clothes, nor any weapon likely to have inflicted the wounds. No importance is attached to this arrest, and the man has since been liberated."



It's having Kozminski claim to belong to the Royal Sussex Regiment that doesn't feel right.

He would have been required to give his address at the station, so no need to follow him to find that out. They will not let him leave unless they are satisfied no suspicion is to be attached to him.

As for the bit about checking his boots. How are they supposed to determine whether he walked from Southampton?
I think it more likely they checked his boots for blood, and because footprints were likely found in the blood around Eddowes body - that's why they checked his boots - in my opinion.

Good Morning Jon!

If the "haggard face" man is "Kosminski" he was found 36-40 hours after the Double Event by a constable not far from Mitre Square. Hours before, he killed two woman. But he had enough time to change his clothing and shoes before he was found by this constable (perhaps he returned to the crime scene or he was on the way to work-Butcher Row, Aldgate High Street, not far from Mitre Square). We do not know what the constable (or other Policemen) asking him but it is possible that "Kosminski" thought he was seen by someone (PC). In such a situation he would not have told the truth.

His belief that he was “ill, and his cure consists in refusing food,” and his belief that he was “under protection of of the Russian Consulate”… He also claimed that “he knows the movements of all mankind” and noted the presence of what he called “instinct” (Rob House)

This kind of man might say, I guess:

"had walked from Southampton, and belonged to the Royal Sussex Regiment"

We have a man after the Double Event who was in an East End Infirmary, we have bloody shirts in Batty Street, we have a PC near Mitre Square and we have a man with a coloured handkerchief seen by Lawende and we have this "haggard face" man who wore a violet scarf and who was found by a PC near Mitre Square so I think that this man could have something to do with all these things.

I can well imagine that this man, after he had left the Leman Street Police Station, was followed by detectives and shadowed over the following days (including East End Infirmary) because the detectives were thinking that this man is not quite right in his mind.

Karsten.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Jon,

They ignored the razor? It must not have had any blood on it. I suppose it would only work for slashing, not piercing, anyway?

I agree but strangely wouldn't a razor be the toll of a barber or Hair dresser?

Yours Jeff

[DJA]

The tool of anyone who shaved.