Packer and Schwartz

[Abby Normal]

I think after killing Nichols and Chapman, maybe Tabram, the Ripper knew that no one had seen him. In this case (Stride) there were witnesses, Schwartz and Pipeman, but did they see him properly? The Ripperīs sense ("his instinct"), what told it? Maybe he thought Schwartz and Pipeman come back with the police. The only witness might have been Stride and he killed her because she is a witness now (with a good view of him). But did it make sense to go to another victim (Eddowes) if a witness (Schwartz, Pipeman) had a good view of him? In my opinion the Ripper was a man who would have stopped after someone had a good view of him.

I don't think so. If they didn't know him, even a good view of him dosnt help much. all he is is some nobody talking to a woman.

I think the only witness who got a pretty good look at him was Schwartz, maybe PC smith, and Like I said, its probably why stride only wound up with a cut throat and not mutilated.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby

Strangely we know there were other serial killers in the area in a comparatively short space of time, whether or Not Chapman and Cream were Jack the Ripper they were still serial killers...

I tend to think there was a separate Torso killer and that Coles was killed by Sadler, but thats just a personal perspective

Yours Jeff

yes, more than likely Torso man was a different killer I agree. Chapman wasn't till many years later, but I don't rule him out either.

Cream?!? no.

[Abby Normal]

I'm not convinced he would stop simply because he thought he had been recognised...

Surely a combination of factors?

Yours Jeff

well if someone recognized him, than yeah I think he would probably not continue with that particular victim. Being recognized means your seen by someone that knows who you are.

if you meant just seen by someone than yeah, it wouldn't be enough to deter him.

[Jeff Leahy]

yes, more than likely Torso man was a different killer I agree. Chapman wasn't till many years later, but I don't rule him out either.

Cream?!? no.

In the back of my mind, back in the 70's.. I believe that social deprivation and poor policing gave rise to a number of serial killers, at the same time, in Mexico City...

Which raises the question are serial killers also a product of environment

After all there are no JtR on the streets of London today

Just a thought

Yours Jeff

[S.Brett]

I think the only witness who got a pretty good look at him was Schwartz, maybe PC smith...

Yes Abby, this seems to have been the case... if he was the man seen by PC Smith (12.30 am) why he returned to Stride at 12.45 am?

Did she not want to go with him into a dark area?

Where has the man been seen with Stride by PC Smith (12.30 am) at 12.45 am? PC Smith described the man as being about 28 years of age. No one stated an age younger than 28. In 1888 Aaron Kozminski was 23 years old.

Oh, I think I was wrong. Packer stated 25-30.

[Abby Normal]

[

QUOTE=S.Brett;359368]Yes Abby, this seems to have been the case... if he was the man seen by PC Smith (12.30 am) why he returned to Stride at 12.45 am?

Did she not want to go with him into a dark area?

no she did not. he returned because after spending considerable time and perhaps money on her he lost his temper in a fit of anger and then went back to her.

[S.Brett]

[

no she did not. he returned because after spending considerable time and perhaps money on her he lost his temper in a fit of anger and then went back to her.

Thanks!

PC Smith: "the couple appeared sober"

Schwartz (Star): "he noticed some distance in front of him a man walking as if partially intoxicated"... "The half-tipsy man halted and spoke to her"...

Within 15 minutes the man is half-tipsy and partially intoxicated. Is it possible?

[c.d.]

well if someone recognized him, than yeah I think he would probably not continue with that particular victim. Being recognized means your seen by someone that knows who you are.

if you meant just seen by someone than yeah, it wouldn't be enough to deter him.

That would seem to indicate major league cojones. If apprehended as a result of Schwartz's description (and possibly the Pipe Man as well) and given the short time that elapsed between Schwartz's citing and Stride's death, that could be enough to put a rope around his neck.

c.d.

[Jonathan H]

Dear Lynn

I see my name has been thrown into the mix.

Aaron Kosminski and David Cohen both exhibit features which might make them Anderson's (and Swanson's) suspect.

In my opinion they both cancel each other out, because a third top cop, Macnaghten, can be shown to know more than Anderson and Swanson; e.g. that "Kosminski" is a fictional variation of a real person, Aaron Kosminski.
And be shown that he knew this man was still alive and out and about for a considerable time after the Kelly murder.

The abbreviation "Kosminski", begins with Macnaghten in the meager extant record.

Anderson in 1908 confuses the Tory Henry Matthews with the Liberal William Harcourt. On the other site there was an hilarious attempt to hold the line sing the word 'the' instead of 'then', and that if the latter p;roved correct then the whole Anderson-Swanson-Kosminski edifice would collapse.

It was 'then'.

No apology, no concession.

Cox in the 1906 source specifically denies the Kosminski solution; he is talking about a suspect closely followed after the Coles murder.

Sagar was talking about a suspect who went to Australia and passed away.

There was no double incarceration of Aaron Kosminski as the data Macnaghten refers to -- apart from the date -- is the same as in 1891.

By 1907, Mac and Sims have given Aaron Kosminski yet another fictional make-over.

They did this, I argue, because the real killer, Montague Druitt -- who unlike "Kosminski" really was deceased -- was related, by a marriage, to a very close friend of both gentlemen and had to be protected.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank those who are giving my revisionist theory a go, at various locations around the globe:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper-Case-Solved-1891-Hainsworth-ebook/dp/B017DZQS82/ref=zg_bs_5435458031_18

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/digital-text/5435458031/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_kinc_2_6_last

http://www.amazon.com/Jack-Ripper-Case-Solved-1891/dp/0786496762

[lynn cates]

behaviour

Hello Jeff. Thanks.

"But I do think these communities would be aware of people amongst them who seemed a little 'odd'."

Very well. But my point was that--as you have pointed out many times--we do NOT know when his episodes began. If no episode, perhaps no behaviour. And if no behaviour . . . ?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Swanson

Hello (again) Jeff. Thanks.

"The problem is that MacNaughten didn't even join the force until well after Kozminski was placed in an Asylum (March 1889)."

Indeed. But Anderson was out of town for most of the slayings.

"And you seem to be forgetting that Swanson was the man in over all responsibility for the investigation... and probably the best and most reliable copper on the force."

A great copper; however:

1. he was LIASING whilst others investigated

2. he may or may not be giving his considered opinion about Kosminski.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

records

Hello (yet again) Jeff. Thanks.

"What we know from these two interviews, is that Anderson failed to catch his man in August 1889... but had caught and solved the mystery by 1892.

So something happened between these dates to change his mind, and bang slap in the middle Kozminski enters the asylum for a second time in Feb 1891."

Then IF the original records could be found (first committal), your case would be greatly furthered (of course, you already know this).

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

converse

Hello Karsten. Thanks.

"Some of them are known to be "crazy" before and after an episode. "Crazy" in terms of their illness but it does not imply that they are "normal" between their episodes."

True. But neither does it imply the converse.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Ah!

Hello (again) Karsten.

"We do not know how many murderers were on the loose. Maybe, there was another serial killer (Torso murders) and if the Ripper killed the C5 only, there were still the murderers of Smith, Tabram, Mackenzie and Coles."

NOW you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

bingo

Hello Jeff.

"Strangely we know there were other serial killers in the area in a comparatively short space of time, whether or not Chapman and Cream were Jack the Ripper they were still serial killers..."

Bingo.

Cheers.
LC