Packer and Schwartz

[S.Brett]

Schwartz can be believed,not as to detail,and so can Brown.Both in my estimation saw the killer,but it was not BS.

Hello Harry!

Brown? Can we be sure?

Brown, a dock labourer of 35 Fairclough Street, testified to seeing a woman with a man at 12.45am, 30th September 1888 in Fairclough Street whilst he was getting his supper from a chandler's shop on the corner with Berner Street. He saw the couple standing by the Board School; the woman had her back to the wall, facing the man who had his arm up against it. Brown heard the woman say "No, not tonight, some other night" which attracted his attention. There was no trace of an accent in the woman's voice.

At that time, there was a couple in Fairclough Street:

Edward Spooner:

Stated that between 12.30am and 1.00am, 30th September 1888, he was standing with a young woman outside the Beehive public house on the corner of Christian Street and Fairclough Street. After talking for about 25 minutes, he saw two Jewish men running up the street shouting 'murder' and 'police'. He saw them run as far as Grove Street and then turn back. When he asked them what was the matter, they explained that a woman had been murdered, so he accompanied them back the Dutfield's Yard. He saw the body of Stride in the yard and estimated that there was about fifteen people standing around it.

Fanny Mortimer:

A young man and his sweetheart were standing at the corner of the street, about twenty yards away, before and after the time the woman must have been murdered, but they told me they did not hear a sound

It seems to me that there were two couples, Spooner and his young woman and the man who bought grapes in Packer´s Shop and with him, Liz Stride.

It is possible that Matthew Packer (11.00-11.30pm), William Marshall (11.45pm) and PC Smith (12.30am) saw Liz Stride with the same man. But Brown? I guess that Brown could have seen Spooner with a young woman. "No, not tonight, some other night" is a phrase that reminds me of a young couple which want more than just kissing...

Maybe, Packer knew that this man was living in this premises. And at end of October 1888 (27-31) he saw him again in Commercial Road/ Greenfield Street.

But who was this man?

We know that Isaac Abrahams and Matilda Lubnowski (with her husband Morris) lived in Greenfield Street. We know that Woolf Abrahams lived in Providence Street/Berner Street. Isaac, Matilda and Woolf were Aaron Kozminski´s brothers and sister. Is it possible that Aaron Kozminski was the man of Packer, Marshall and PC Smith? One of them had a good view of the man, Matthew Packer.

But is BS Man identical with "Kosminski"? Stride was standing at the entrance of Dutfields Yard. In this yard there also were living rooms. In 1891 a Jacob Luskie lived there. Imagine Luskie returned to his lodging (drunken) at 12.35am and when he wanted to enter the yard a dispute arose between Stride and him. And that is what Schwartz saw.

Where was the man of Packer, Marshall and PC Smith?

"Pipman" called "Luskie" and Schwartz heard "Lipski". In this case it is possible that the police have found BS Man and Pipeman.

Via Packer the press learned more about Packer´s man who was under surveillance and the police stopped the surveillance after the press got wind of it.

Cox (City Police) stated:

Not far from where the model lodging house stands he met another woman, and for a considerable distance he walked along with her.

The man of Packer, Marshall and PC Smith a considerable distance he walked with Stride I guess it is possible...

[John G]

Good Morning Karsten, John and Abbey

I've been thinking about some of your observations. I think it fair to conclude Stride was different to the other victims.

The more I think about Marshals observation it seems apparent that Stride was not as drunk as the other victims. In fact her whole behaviour suggests she was also less desperate for money and took more pride in her appearance than the others.

And consider Jacks MO? It relied entirely on the cooperation of the victim.

Unless they agreed and took him somewhere quiet, the attack was a no show.

So what if Stride was simply more alert and discerning?

Brown heres her say " Not tonight some other night" so whether she is with Jack or another man she is saying NO? so more discerning

So what if she meets her killer as witnessed by Marshal and takes him to Outfield yard, other side of the road, as seen by PC Smith, and she says.. NO.

The killer goes off disgruntled.

Shortly afterwards the man comes back and finds Stride still soliciting... They argue he attacks..its personal

Re: Schwartz. His view is largely of the rear of the BSM suspect, What if John is correct about the yard and BSM being slightly more inside the yard than on the pavement? Is it not possible that Schwartz might simply have not had a good view of BSM, and was later unable to give a positive ID of a suspect?

This would make more sense of MacNaughtens doubts. Karsten? What if there was an ID following the Farmer incident and it failed? The police would have many circumstances to suspect the suspect but not enough to prosecute or bring a case to court. They would thus need to catch him red handed, so they might let him go and have him followed?

Just one of those speculating thoughts. It would however require a third witness.

Yours Jeff

Hello Jeff,

Marshall's sighting was at 11:45, and what he appeared to have witnesed was a amorous couple canoodling. For instance, he mentions that they were kissing, with the man having his arm around the women's neck. He also says they were "were standing there for some time". Hardly seems like a street prostitute and client. Moreover, Marshall is adamant that the woman "did not then have a flower in her breast".

And if Stride was soliciting, is it remotely likely that she would be wandering around the locality, with the same man, for over an hour? After all, time is money!

There also seems to be scant evidence that Dutfiled's yard was used for purposes of prostitution. That being the case, why would Stride elect to solicit there during a busy night for the club, especially as people were frequently entering and exiting the premises during the course of the evening?

Of course, Schwartz refers to Stride standing by herself in the gateway. Okay, so what was she doing there? I mean, if that was her "patch" then why did she keep wandering off? For instance, PC Smith saw her with a man on the pavement opposite the club, but she was no where in the vicinity when Eagle returned, or when Lave exited the club, walking as far as the gate.

And what of Schwartz's timings? 12:45 seems to have been little more than guesswork: it's worth noting that Edward Spooner estimated he reached the yard at 12:35, but must have been around half an hour out. It's therefore perfectly possible that the incident seen by Schwartz, assuming there was an incident and the woman was Stride, occurred much earlier, say, 12:15.

However, I consider PC Smith to be a very important witness. Uniquely, he recognized that Stride had a flower pinned to her jacket and she was stood with a suspect, carrying a suspicious parcel in his hand, opposite the club. Now, according to his evidence this was about 12:35. But what if it was actually significantly later, say, 12:45, which would seriously undermine Schwartz's evidence?

This would accord much more closely with Mortimer's evidence: she hears him passing at around 12:45, goes outside shortly afterwards, returns at about 1:00 am after seeing Goldstein walk past.

Moreover, PC Smith stated that two constables were already in Dutfield's Yard when he arrived. As PC Lamb must have got there about 1:05, or a little later, Smith's arrival could have been, say, 1:10. Due to the presence of the other officers PC Smith seems to have remained only briefly, before going to the police station for an ambulance. As he was leaving Dr Blackwell's assistant was just arriving: and we know from Dr Blackwell that he and his assistant were notified at 1:10, the assistant setting off immediately; therefore this would also be consistent with PC Smith arriving at about 1:10, I.e around the time the assistant was notified. Now, as he estimated that his beat took between 25 to 30 minutes to complete, that suggests he saw Stride between 12:40 and 12:45.

Of course, PC Smith's suspect could have inveigled Stride into the Yard by suggesting they visit the club, gaining access via the side door. Stride might have been attracted by the singing and the man could have claimed to be a member.

In any event, it seems to me that removing Schwartz from the equation means things make much more sense. And recapping on the weaknesses of his evidence: the virtually insurmountable cachous problem, which by itself is virtually fatal to the theory Stride was killed by BS Man; Stride's clothes not damaged or creased; flower remaining intact during at least two assaults; no bruising or grazing to Stride's skin, despite being thrown onto the pavement; no one else sees or hears the altercation, despite Stride screaming three times, including Mrs D, sat in the kitchen with the window open, or Mortimer, who nonetheless manages to hear passing footsteps; no likely explanation as to how BS man manages to subsequently persuade Stride to enter a pitch black narrow passageway with him, I.e. after just assaulting her; and major inconsistencies between the police and newspaper accounts.

Incidentally, I doubt that BS Man, assuming he existed, could have been Kosminski: the Broad shoulders description implies someone quite muscular, whereas Kosminski may well have been living rough on the streets at this time, and therefore would be more likely to have an emaciated look.
.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi John

I won't address everything here, just a few points that might be relevant

In any event, it seems to me that removing Schwartz from the equation means things make much more sense. And recapping on the weaknesses of his evidence: the virtually insurmountable cachous problem; Stride's clothes not damaged or creased; flower remaining intact during at least two assaults; no bruising or grazing to Stride's skin, despite being thrown onto the pavement; no one else sees or hears the altercation, despite Stride screaming three times, including Mrs D, sat in the kitchen with the window open, or Mortimer, who managed to hear passing footsteps; no likely explanation as to how BS man manages to subsequently persuade Stride to enter a pitch black narrow passageway way with him, I.e. after just assaulting her; and major inconsistencies between the police and newspaper accounts

I spent some time trying to reconstruct Strides murder and generally dragging my poor long suffering girlfriend around by a neck scarf.. Needless to say I failed..

If BSM did kill Stride, then it must have been with extreme force and speed, over in a matter of seconds. I vary much doubt she would have know what hit her and I doubt it could be re-created without hurting someone.

That said, think Stride turned away from BSM. He grabbed her by the scarf tight trapping her left arm behind her she grabbed at he scarf...The scarf choked her...

"She screamed three times but not vary loudly" this is a translation but I believe Schwartz heard a gurggling Choking sound... Its not possible to scream quietly.

Stride Fainted to the ground and BSM shouted Lipski at Schwartz who ran

BSM lent down grabbed the scarf and pulled her over the wet slats with two or three strides, a cut her throat with one single movement

Clasping the Cachous was a reflex action, I don't think it could be repeated and will continue to baffle.

She gain consciousness briefly and drew herself into a slightly different position.

BSM was gone and in Whitechurch lane cleaning up by the time she was discovered

Incidentally, I doubt that BS Man, assuming he existed could have been Kosminski: the Broad shoulders description implies someone quite muscular, whereas Kosminski may well have been living rough on the streets at this time, and therefore would be more likely to have an emaciated look.
.

We don't know what Kozminski looked like.. But Polish genes. Family photos exist of other members with the destinctive bulbous nose, dark with blue eyes would be my guess...could he also have had a wispy early twenties trash, a little fairer? Another guess

Somewhat taller than the victims but not tall... 5' 4'' - 5''

He was twenty three years old in 1888, full grown. The body starts to shink and this might be connected to onset Schizophrenia according to a recent report...but there is nothing to suggest that he was eating from the gutter or disheveled at this time..I think the man described by Cox is the most likely appearance of Aaron Kozminski in 1888.

What we know is he knew Dutfield Yard well, he lived next door as a kid.

His Brother Wolf lived yards around the corner in Provenance street, this would join to Greenfield Street where his other brother and sister lived via Batty Street..

So if Stride was a kozminski kill...and I don't believe Schwartz ID's him or he would have been charged, then she was different from the others

I now also believe that Jack met all his victims apart from Stride in the same place a stretch of the Whitechapel Road a matter of a few hundred yards apart

The attack described by Schwartz sounds more personal than the others to me

But thats just my take on it, I think Karsten prefers that Pipeman and BSM were eliminated. I just think Schwartz had a poor description because his view was largely from behind

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

PS this might interest some people it shows Fanny Mortimers POV of Outfield Yard

Yours Jeff

[Jeff Leahy]

Dutfeild Yard slightly higher angle... Please note these images are copyright

But might be useful to conversation

[Rosella]

According to the Star, of 1st October 1888 the building occupying the International Men's Educational Society had two stories. The third storey was added in the 1920's I believe.

[S.Brett]

Hi Jeff!

William West:

but I was in the club again till a quarter-past midnight. A discussion was proceeding in the lecture-room, which has three windows overlooking the courtyard. From ninety to 100 persons attended the discussion, which terminated soon after half-past eleven, when the bulk of the members left, using the street door, the most convenient exit. From twenty to thirty members remained, some staying in the lecture-room and the others going downstairs. Of those upstairs a few continued the discussion, while the rest were singing. The windows of the lecture-room were partly open.

90-100 persons, soon after half-past eleven a bulk of the members left... 20-30 members remained...

When the bulk of the members left:

11.30pm: Packer: I then shut up my shutters.

They passed by as though they were going up Com- Road, but- instead of going up they crossed to the other side of the road to the Board School, & were there for about 1/2 an hour till I shd. say 11.30. talking to one another. I then shut up my shutters.

... the bulk of members left...

This couple...

down the Berner Street, crossing Fairclough Street

William Marshall (11.45pm) sees this couple...

This couple returned to Dutfields Yard

and PC Smith (12.30am) sees this couple...

If Aaron Kozminski was the killer it is possible that he knew: at 11.30 -12.00pm is a bad time for killing and mutilation in Dutfields Yard. So did he wait... 1881/82 he was living next to this yard and it is very likely that he came there, for the first time in his life, in contact with prostitution.

This place may be the reason why Kosminski had a great hatred of women, especially of the prostitute class. A part of Kozminski´s fantasy could have been, maybe, a killing in this yard. He was the murderer of Nichols and Chapman and probably of Tabram. This time he could take this risk...

If the police knew that Kosminski lived next to Dutfields Yard in 1881/82 (many circs) then they have decrypted a secret message of the killer called Jack the Ripper. In this connection it is also possible that the GSG was done by Kosminski. Consciously or unconsciously, with this murder in Dutfields Yard I think it is possible that Aaron Kozminski said/says "I am Jack the Ripper"! Not Stride was personally, it was the Dutfields Yard.

Yours Karsten.

[Jeff Leahy]

According to the Star, of 1st October 1888 the building occupying the International Men's Educational Society had two stories. The third storey was added in the 1920's I believe.

The models were created by Jakko Luukanen (I believe he consult heavily with original photos from a number of credible sources including Rob Clack), I'd be most surprised if he got anything wrong. You'll note that a brick wall surrounded the board school at the time.

ve check through my archive but can't fines Paper sketches at the time that show a wider view, Obviously there sons photo but thats low, so only the famous wagon wheel shots and I can't find a date for those...I've got a gove map shot but that doesn't indicate height of buildings, will keep checking

Yours Jeff

[John G]

Hi John

I won't address everything here, just a few points that might be relevant



I spent some time trying to reconstruct Strides murder and generally dragging my poor long suffering girlfriend around by a neck scarf.. Needless to say I failed..

If BSM did kill Stride, then it must have been with extreme force and speed, over in a matter of seconds. I vary much doubt she would have know what hit her and I doubt it could be re-created without hurting someone.

That said, think Stride turned away from BSM. He grabbed her by the scarf tight trapping her left arm behind her she grabbed at he scarf...The scarf choked her...

"She screamed three times but not vary loudly" this is a translation but I believe Schwartz heard a gurggling Choking sound... Its not possible to scream quietly.

Stride Fainted to the ground and BSM shouted Lipski at Schwartz who ran

BSM lent down grabbed the scarf and pulled her over the wet slats with two or three strides, a cut her throat with one single movement

Clasping the Cachous was a reflex action, I don't think it could be repeated and will continue to baffle.

She gain consciousness briefly and drew herself into a slightly different position.

BSM was gone and in Whitechurch lane cleaning up by the time she was discovered



We don't know what Kozminski looked like.. But Polish genes. Family photos exist of other members with the destinctive bulbous nose, dark with blue eyes would be my guess...could he also have had a wispy early twenties trash, a little fairer? Another guess

Somewhat taller than the victims but not tall... 5' 4'' - 5''

He was twenty three years old in 1888, full grown. The body starts to shink and this might be connected to onset Schizophrenia according to a recent report...but there is nothing to suggest that he was eating from the gutter or disheveled at this time..I think the man described by Cox is the most likely appearance of Aaron Kozminski in 1888.

What we know is he knew Dutfield Yard well, he lived next door as a kid.

His Brother Wolf lived yards around the corner in Provenance street, this would join to Greenfield Street where his other brother and sister lived via Batty Street..

So if Stride was a kozminski kill...and I don't believe Schwartz ID's him or he would have been charged, then she was different from the others

I now also believe that Jack met all his victims apart from Stride in the same place a stretch of the Whitechapel Road a matter of a few hundred yards apart

The attack described by Schwartz sounds more personal than the others to me

But thats just my take on it, I think Karsten prefers that Pipeman and BSM were eliminated. I just think Schwartz had a poor description because his view was largely from behind

Yours Jeff

Oops. Duplicate post.

[Jeff Leahy]

According to the Star, of 1st October 1888 the building occupying the International Men's Educational Society had two stories. The third storey was added in the 1920's I believe.

Not been able to identify 100% but the famous wagon wheel shot that is usually used to depict Dutfields Yard has three floors and I think that was take in 1909.

Phil Hutchinson's photo is 1901 I think thats the oldest

as I said I'd be surprised if Jake's research got it wrong

Yours Jeff

[John G]

Hi John

I won't address everything here, just a few points that might be relevant



I spent some time trying to reconstruct Strides murder and generally dragging my poor long suffering girlfriend around by a neck scarf.. Needless to say I failed..

If BSM did kill Stride, then it must have been with extreme force and speed, over in a matter of seconds. I vary much doubt she would have know what hit her and I doubt it could be re-created without hurting someone.

That said, think Stride turned away from BSM. He grabbed her by the scarf tight trapping her left arm behind her she grabbed at he scarf...The scarf choked her...

"She screamed three times but not vary loudly" this is a translation but I believe Schwartz heard a gurggling Choking sound... Its not possible to scream quietly.

Stride Fainted to the ground and BSM shouted Lipski at Schwartz who ran

BSM lent down grabbed the scarf and pulled her over the wet slats with two or three strides, a cut her throat with one single movement

Clasping the Cachous was a reflex action, I don't think it could be repeated and will continue to baffle.

She gain consciousness briefly and drew herself into a slightly different position.

BSM was gone and in Whitechurch lane cleaning up by the time she was discovered



We don't know what Kozminski looked like.. But Polish genes. Family photos exist of other members with the destinctive bulbous nose, dark with blue eyes would be my guess...could he also have had a wispy early twenties trash, a little fairer? Another guess

Somewhat taller than the victims but not tall... 5' 4'' - 5''

He was twenty three years old in 1888, full grown. The body starts to shink and this might be connected to onset Schizophrenia according to a recent report...but there is nothing to suggest that he was eating from the gutter or disheveled at this time..I think the man described by Cox is the most likely appearance of Aaron Kozminski in 1888.

What we know is he knew Dutfield Yard well, he lived next door as a kid.

His Brother Wolf lived yards around the corner in Provenance street, this would join to Greenfield Street where his other brother and sister lived via Batty Street..

So if Stride was a kozminski kill...and I don't believe Schwartz ID's him or he would have been charged, then she was different from the others

I now also believe that Jack met all his victims apart from Stride in the same place a stretch of the Whitechapel Road a matter of a few hundred yards apart

The attack described by Schwartz sounds more personal than the others to me

But thats just my take on it, I think Karsten prefers that Pipeman and BSM were eliminated. I just think Schwartz had a poor description because his view was largely from behind

Yours Jeff

Hi Jeff,

Okay, let's consider what Schwartz actually says: "the man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round a threw her down on the footway a the woman screamed three times, but not very loudly." Note, this occurs before Schwartz crosses to the opposite side of the street.

So, apparently, Stride holds on to the cachous whilst being grabbed hold of, pulled into the street-at which point her instinct would surely be to raise both arms to resist, thus dropping the cachous- spun around and, finally, thrown on the footway! Of course, her natural instinct, whilst being thrown to the ground, would be to throw out her arms and spread her fingers, I.e. to break the fall, thus dropping the cachous.

Then, apparently, he grabs her by the scarf and drags her into the Yard. How is this possible? I mean, it's a small silk scarf he's got hold of, not a rope and pulley system! And why wasn't Stride's body grazed and bruised as she's being dragged along the ground? I know it was wet, although it had stopped raining sometime previously, but the yard hadn't presumably turned into a primordial swamp!

You suggest that the screaming was actually choking. However, Schwartz doesn't mention Stride being choked or grabbed by the scarf. And bear in mind, he heard the screams as he witnessed her being thrown on the footpath-before he crossed the street-so this is something he should have observed. And when does he shout Lipski? Whilst he's trying to drag Stride over the footpath and into the yard presumably!

If your suggesting that he pulled Stride into the street, spun her round, and threw her to the ground, with the scarf, why didn't Schwartz mention this? How would it be remotely possible to complete all of those manoeuvres with just a small silk scarf? Why didn't Stride instinctively raise her hands to her neck, thus dropping the cachous?

You see that's the problem: just to make Schwartz's evidence make any sense at all one is forced to resort to extreme, implausible, and probably physically impossible solutions. Whereas a far simpler solution is that Stride was not killed by BS man: Occam's razor.

Here's a different, and in my opinion far more likely, scenario. Stride is killed by PC Smith's suspect. As soon as the officer is out of sight, he persuades Stride to go with him to the club, mentioning the singing and dancing. He informs her he's a member and they will need to gain access via the side door. Stride agrees and they enter the yard, Stride happily eating the cachous.

However, something unsettles her. Perhaps it's partially the pitch black darkness, and maybe she also senses the man looming behind her breathing down her neck, poised to strike (of course,she would have been aware of the JtR scare). Maybe he says something which alerts her to possible danger. In any event, she changes her mind, quickly turns round and heads for the exit. The man is initially caught by surprise, but he quickly regains his composure, follows Stride out, catches her from behind (neck or scarf), brings her to the ground and slits her throat. Simple!

[Jon Guy]

razor.

Here's a different, and in my opinion far more likely, scenario. Stride is killed by PC Smith's suspect. As soon as the officer is out of sight, he persuades Stride to go with him to the club, mentioning the singing and dancing. He informs her he's a member and they will need to gain access via the side door. Stride agrees and they enter the yard, Stride happily eating the cachous.

However, something unsettles her. Perhaps it's partially the pitch black darkness, and maybe she also senses the man looming behind her breathing down her neck, poised to strike (of course,she would have been aware of the JtR scare). Maybe he says something which alerts her to possible danger. In any event, she changes her mind, quickly turns round and heads for the exit. The man is initially caught by surprise, but he quickly regains his composure, follows Stride out, catches her from behind (neck or scarf), brings her to the ground and slits her throat. Simple!

Bloody hell, Johnny
You`re throwing out Schwartz`s statement for the above .. breathing down her neck, regains composure, caught by surprise, changes her mind.... !
Where did you get all that from ;-)

[John G]

Bloody hell, Johnny
You`re throwing out Schwartz`s statement for the above .. breathing down her neck, regains composure, caught by surprise, changes her mind.... !
Where did you get all that from ;-)

Hi Jon,

I thought I'd inject a tiny bit of melodrama into the proceedings-mainly for enhanced dramatic effect, of course, but also partially inspired by Schwartz's own dramatic account! Actually, to come to think of it, maybe I should start work on a screenplay!

However, I must say that at least my scenario seems to pass the physical possibility test. Almost perfect, in fact, if I do say so myself. Mind you, fine-tuning ideas will be gratefully appreciated!

[S.Brett]

This would make more sense of MacNaughtens doubts. Karsten?

Star, 1 October 1888

It is, in fact, to the effect that he saw the whole thing.

Really? The whole thing?

He saw BS Man, he saw a woman, he saw Pipeman

He described BS Man, he described Pipeman but he did not describe the woman

For Schwartz, the most important person, in the scene he watched, had been BS Man, the second most important person was Pipeman. It seems that he had "great respect" for both men.

To the woman:

...a woman, who was standing in the gateway... he noticed a woman standing in the entrance to the alleyway

He noticed a woman standing... ALONE...

ALONE? Really?

If BS Man or Pipeman were not Jack the Ripper did they see the woman standing ALONE?

I am thinking of another "image". This couple, seen by Packer, Marshall and PC Smith reached the Dutfields Yard again, and now, the man was ready to enter the yard with the woman and ready to kill Stride after PC Smith had seen them. But they noticed BS Man and when BS Man came closer the Ripper went into the darkness of the yard. After the quarrel was over it was the best time to kill Stride and the Ripper did it. But someone had disturbed him... Diemschütz?

It is quite possible that all the time, when BS Man, Schwartz and Piepman arrived at the scene, Jack the Ripper was "standing close" to Stride but no one saw him.

Not BS Man, not Pipeman and certainly not Schwartz. No one could identify Kosminski... So I think Schwartz was not the Seaside Home witness. He had never seen Kosminski...

[RockySullivan]

Hi Jeff,

Okay, let's consider what Schwartz actually says: "the man tried to pull the woman into the street, but he turned her round a threw her down on the footway a the woman screamed three times, but not very loudly." Note, this occurs before Schwartz crosses to the opposite side of the street.

So, apparently, Stride holds on to the cachous whilst being grabbed hold of, pulled into the street-at which point her instinct would surely be to raise both arms to resist, thus dropping the cachous- spun around and, finally, thrown on the footway! Of course, her natural instinct, whilst being thrown to the ground, would be to throw out her arms and spread her fingers, I.e. to break the fall, thus dropping the cachous.

Then, apparently, he grabs her by the scarf and drags her into the Yard. How is this possible? I mean, it's a small silk scarf he's got hold of, not a rope and pulley system! And why wasn't Stride's body grazed and bruised as she's being dragged along the ground? I know it was wet, although it had stopped raining sometime previously, but the yard hadn't presumably turned into a primordial swamp!

You suggest that the screaming was actually choking. However, Schwartz doesn't mention Stride being choked or grabbed by the scarf. And bear in mind, he heard the screams as he witnessed her being thrown on the footpath-before he crossed the street-so this is something he should have observed. And when does he shout Lipski? Whilst he's trying to drag Stride over the footpath and into the yard presumably!

If your suggesting that he pulled Stride into the street, spun her round, and threw her to the ground, with the scarf, why didn't Schwartz mention this? How would it be remotely possible to complete all of those manoeuvres with just a small silk scarf? Why didn't Stride instinctively raise her hands to her neck, thus dropping the cachous?

You see that's the problem: just to make Schwartz's evidence make any sense at all one is forced to resort to extreme, implausible, and probably physically impossible solutions. Whereas a far simpler solution is that Stride was not killed by BS man: Occam's razor.

Here's a different, and in my opinion far more likely, scenario. Stride is killed by PC Smith's suspect. As soon as the officer is out of sight, he persuades Stride to go with him to the club, mentioning the singing and dancing. He informs her he's a member and they will need to gain access via the side door. Stride agrees and they enter the yard, Stride happily eating the cachous.

However, something unsettles her. Perhaps it's partially the pitch black darkness, and maybe she also senses the man looming behind her breathing down her neck, poised to strike (of course,she would have been aware of the JtR scare). Maybe he says something which alerts her to possible danger. In any event, she changes her mind, quickly turns round and heads for the exit. The man is initially caught by surprise, but he quickly regains his composure, follows Stride out, catches her from behind (neck or scarf), brings her to the ground and slits her throat. Simple!

If I was eating candy and had it in my fist and someone came and pushed me...I wouldn't just drop the candy...I would probably make a fist and clench the candy while defending myself. I'm pretty sure my first instinct is...don't drop the the candy