Possible explanation for Maxwell Discrepency?

[RivkahChaya]

Hello Rivkah

To be honest Mary wasn't likely to have had rickets either, having grown up in the Welsh countryside :-). It is telling, though, that the two tallest victims were the ones who had grown up in the country.

Best wishes
C4

Actually, she was more likely to show effects of scurvy than rickets, since rickets pretty much strikes children, when their bones are growing, and adults are less susceptible because their needs for D and calcium are less. Everyone needs C pretty much equally, and of all the deficiency diseases, scurvy can show up the quickest, because humans can't store vitamin C. Ran this by my husband, who is a biologist.

[curious4]

I just pulled the name of a vitamin deficiency disease out of my ass.

Hello Rivkah

To be honest Mary wasn't likely to have had rickets either, having grown up in the Welsh countryside :-). It is telling, though, that the two tallest victims were the ones who had grown up in the country.

Best wishes
C4

[richardnunweek]

Hi C4..
It would be a coincidence indeed, as for the medical opinion on T.O.D, this was 1888, and witnesses would have played a part in estimation..
Someone cries out at 4.am..good enough..
Richard.

[curious4]

Mrs Prater told the inquest, that she was awakened by a faint cry of ''Oh Murder'' asked to describe she said ''Like awaken from a nightmare''..
We are left with, who was being more accurate..several screams, or just a faint one..?
Richard.

Hello Richard

Now I see that what I have been reading are witness statements taken on 9th November and kept with the inquest papers. Nevertheless, I would have thought that what she said on the ninth would be more accurate than what she said on the twelfth, the events being clearer in her mind then.

And it would be quite a coincidence if she were to wake from a nightmare about being murdered at precisely the time the doctors estimated her time of death.

Best wishes
C4

[RivkahChaya]

Wasn't "Oh, murder," the Victorian version of "Oh, crap," or "Oh, balls"? It didn't mean someone had necessarily encountered a murder. It could mean you dropped something on your foot.

[John G]

It was my understanding that Elizabeth Pratter told the inquest that the cry of "murder" was in a faint voice, whereas contrastingly Lewis referred to a "scream" . If correct, this suggests to me that the sound may have emanated from nearer to Lewis' room, which was on the opposite side of the Court to Pratter's and Kelly's lodgings.

In fact, in one newspaper Lewis is quoted as saying that the sound seemed to come from the direction of McCarthy's shop (this makes sense as it was next door to the Keylors.)

Interestingly, Pratter claimed to have spoken to John McCarthy between 1:00 and 1:30, not that I'm a conspiracy theorist or anything!

[RivkahChaya]

She probably met a lot of sailors, but I shouldn't think she ever sailed the seas. I think you mean rickets :-). Although she would have been short in stature if she had had it.

C4

I just pulled the name of a vitamin deficiency disease out of my ass.

[richardnunweek]

Mrs Prater told the inquest, that she was awakened by a faint cry of ''Oh Murder'' asked to describe she said ''Like awaken from a nightmare''..
We are left with, who was being more accurate..several screams, or just a faint one..?
Richard.

[curious4]

Hi C4,
Only one scream was heard, and according to Mrs Prater, sounded like ''Someone awaken from a nightmare''
This could explain the cry out at 4am...
According to a woman called Lottie,,Mary Kelly had told her, that she had recently had a dream that she was being murdered.
Is it not possible, that she dreamed the same again that morning, especially if she had been in alcohol, and as the subject of that dream was ''Being murdered''..the Cry out'' Oh Murder'' would fit that scenario.?
Regards Richard,

Or someone waking TO a nightmare! No, twopeople said they heard screams, Prater and Lewis, Prater two or three screams, at least according to the Sourcebook.

Best wishes,
C4

[richardnunweek]

Hi C4,
Only one scream was heard, and according to Mrs Prater, sounded like ''Someone awaken from a nightmare''
This could explain the cry out at 4am...
According to a woman called Lottie,,Mary Kelly had told her, that she had recently had a dream that she was being murdered.
Is it not possible, that she dreamed the same again that morning, especially if she had been in alcohol, and as the subject of that dream was ''Being murdered''..the Cry out'' Oh Murder'' would fit that scenario.?
Regards Richard,

[c.d.]

Why is the idea that Mrs. Maxwell simply made a mistake so hard to accept? Granted that that notion is not nearly as intriguing as the killer running around in Mary's clothes but come on folks....

Most likely Maxwell either got Mary confused with someone else or it was Mary that she saw and somehow confused the day and/or the time in her mind. It happens all the time.

There is simply no need for wild theories when the simplest explanation will do quite nicely.

c.d.

[curious4]

If she wasn't pock-marked, had good posture, and didn't have scurvy, she probably would have stood out.

She probably met a lot of sailors, but I shouldn't think she ever sailed the seas. I think you mean rickets :-). Although she would have been short in stature if she had had it.

C4

[RivkahChaya]

At the risk of sounding like a chauvinistic pig, even if Mary Kelly was only a 6/10 she probably would've stood out among the rest of her sort.

If she wasn't pock-marked, had good posture, and didn't have scurvy, she probably would have stood out.

[Harry D]

At the risk of sounding like a chauvinistic pig, even if Mary Kelly was only a 6/10 she probably would've stood out among the rest of her sort.

[curious4]

Hi.
The ''eyes looked queer'' version . I read on a train journey, but I do not know if it was from a book, or a manuscript ?
The 'Muffled' up version I was told, came from a separate source, that being McCormack.
Therefore two different accounts..
The clothes Mrs Maxwell allegedly saw Kelly wearing at her sighting, were actually found in her room, therefore the killer could not have made their escape in them.
She was intending to go to The lord mayors show,the man Hutchinson[ alleged] saw, was apparently over dressed,which could lead to the impression that he was to be her morning escort.
We know Mrs Harvey, left her bonnet for Mary's use [on the Thursday],,she is quoted to have said,''I shall be leaving my bonnet then''.
She is seen in a jacket , and bonnet by Mrs Prater at 9 PM, when both were off out.
This alone gives credence to Praters account, as she never had a bonnet , until that evening...
Both the Velvet Jacket , and bonnet, were burnt by someone in that room, the police suggesting '' because they were bloodstained''.
Regards Richard.

Hello Richard

Shot down! It was a lovely theory :-). I suppose he/she could have gone back to the room having obtained fresh clothing from, say, plaid man. I don't know how long and how brightly a velvet jacket and a bonnet would burn, but I suppose if she was murdered in daylight, extra light wouldn't have been needed.

Still think Mrs M was mistaken, though, and that the murder was commited when the screams were heard. Why ignore the obvious?

Best wishes
C4