Lawende is a red herring.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Do you think "lookalike" is the correct term to use?
Neither witness saw the woman's face, only that the woman wore similar black clothing.

Fair point Wick. It was an exaggeration.

[DJA]

St. James Passage was covered, for close to 25 ft.

Was that the case in 1888 when it was known as Church Passage?

Fire map for 1887 shows no covering.

Ah,you refer to Mitre Passage.

[Wickerman]

what I find more puzzling is that why would a policeman think a rag in the dark dumped in a doorway suspicious?..and red blood doesn't show out in the dark, so it wouldn't have stood out as a blood soaked rag.
just saying!

In the Times, The Daily News, and the Telegraph, PC Long said that he passed the spot previously at 2:20, and it was not there then.
Which is a reasonable cause for suspicion.

[Wickerman]

Yep.

As there was no blood spray,Eddowes had been strangled.
That cut the time frame even more, if Lawende saw them.
As previously mentioned,the two eye "cuts" would have required light and a scalpel.

There was no mention of her being wet from the rain ..... or vice versa.

Now where could she have been?

St. James Passage was covered, for close to 25 ft.

[Wickerman]

So at 1.30 Mitre Square is corpse-free. Four or five minutes later three men in an otherwise deserted street see a man and a woman (who appears to resemble Eddowes) at the opening of Church Passage, having an early morning chat. Ten minutes later Eddowes is discovered dead a few yards away. So we would have to accept that either these two then walked away together (leaving us to ask why they’d stopped there for a chat in the first place?) Or that they went there separate ways, then another woman (the real Catherine as opposed to a lookalike) entered Mitre Square with an entirely different man (or that she bumped into him as they were both crossing the square)
Or that while lookalike Eddowes is chatting to a man the real Eddowes and Jack either enter the square together via one of the other two ways or that they just bump into each other there.

The simplest scenario is surely the likeliest here. Unless we enter corpse carrying fantasies then what’s left?

Do you think "lookalike" is the correct term to use?
Neither witness saw the woman's face, only that the woman wore similar black clothing.

[DJA]

Just a small point, but Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes were both wearing black clothing on the same night but were also different women in different locations. Wearing black in London that night would not be unique to either woman that night.

Precisely.

That was the only identification the three gave of the woman apart from height.

She was not an Eddowes look a like.

[DJA]

Two doctors at the scene - Sequeira and Brown - reckoned on the death taking place after 1:30am based on their own arrivals rather than explicit physical evidence alone, so it's not entirely clear if they were being influenced by PC Watkin's testimony that there was no body there at 1:30am when he previous passed round Mitre Square.

It's been a wonder of mine for a while whether PC Watkin missed Catherine Eddowes's body when he went round Mitre Square around 1:30am but saw her at 1:44am as the door at Kearly & Tonge had been opened and so shed some light into the Square. He could honestly say he saw nothing at 1:30am but he wouldn't be able to account for not knowing whether her body was there or not earlier. If she was there but he didn't see her then that's bad in terms of his own vigilance on duty, but he can't know for absolutely sure she wasn't there as it was dark. Better then, for his standing, to simply say she definitely wasn't there than say he wasn't sure.

When Sequeria talks of there being sufficient light to, 'perpetrate the deed' despite it being the darkest part of the Square, was he seeing it while the door at Kearly & Tonge was still open? The door may have still been wide open after PC Watkin knocked for assistance 10 minutes earlier.

Watkins was mainly checking doors and windows.

The gate leading to 5,6 and 7 Mitre Street would have been an important check.Miss that and he was in real strife.

[Curious Cat]

Just a small point, but Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes were both wearing black clothing on the same night but were also different women in different locations. Wearing black in London that night would not be unique to either woman that night.

[DJA]

So at 1.30 Mitre Square is corpse-free. Four or five minutes later three men in an otherwise deserted street see a man and a woman (who appears to resemble Eddowes) at the opening of Church Passage, having an early morning chat. Ten minutes later Eddowes is discovered dead a few yards away. So we would have to accept that either these two then walked away together (leaving us to ask why they’d stopped there for a chat in the first place?) Or that they went there separate ways, then another woman (the real Catherine as opposed to a lookalike) entered Mitre Square with an entirely different man (or that she bumped into him as they were both crossing the square)
Or that while lookalike Eddowes is chatting to a man the real Eddowes and Jack either enter the square together via one of the other two ways or that they just bump into each other there.

The simplest scenario is surely the likeliest here. Unless we enter corpse carrying fantasies then what’s left?

The woman dressed in black like Eddowes and her companion had most likely been sheltering from the rain.

"a few yards away" ...... the Passage was 85 feet long,plus another 77 feet for Mitre Square. That's over 50 yards.

[DJA]

I've always raised eyebrow with the "how much light" thing.
How dark is to dark?
I cant amagin it was like working with your eyes closed kind of dark.
In reality, a body is quite small close up,even a dark silhouette would be enough.

what I find more puzzling is that why would a policeman think a rag in the dark dumped in a doorway suspicious?..and red blood doesn't show out in the dark, so it wouldn't have stood out as a blood soaked rag.
just saying!

Up here in the Otway Ranges where we get a good view of the Milky Way,moonlight is usually sufficient for walking around.

When it's dark,it's dark.
Cloud cover completely blocks out all light.

A rag in a doorway would attract attention primarily as a tripping danger.

[DJA]

It could well be the case that Watkins missed her at 01.30. We have to assume he was being totally honest, but when you think on it, he was a City cop and had absolutely no reason to believe he was about to find another victim that morning. He may well have chatted too long to a crony then shortcutted through a building or an ally. Or perhaps just gave a quick look as he passed through the square. To admit dereliction during such an important event would have him vilified in the Press and with his superiors. I'm not saying this is how it happened but it makes sense.

We have Watkins' beat and maps of it.
Name a short cut he could have taken.

Perhaps being on the force for 17 years,he did exactly as he testified to at Eddowes' Inquest.

Do you realise how close the Nichols and Chapman murders were to Mitre Square?
The area was on alert,with detectives on watch quite close by.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It could well be the case that Watkins missed her at 01.30. We have to assume he was being totally honest, but when you think on it, he was a City cop and had absolutely no reason to believe he was about to find another victim that morning. He may well have chatted too long to a crony then shortcutted through a building or an ally. Or perhaps just gave a quick look as he passed through the square. To admit dereliction during such an important event would have him vilified in the Press and with his superiors. I'm not saying this is how it happened but it makes sense.

It’s not impossible that he might have had a briefer look than he actually did and missed her in the shadows in the corner. I tend to think that Lawende and the other two probably saw her but it can’t be a certainty of course.

[spyglass]

Yep.

As there was no blood spray,Eddowes had been strangled.
That cut the time frame even more, if Lawende saw them.
As previously mentioned,the two eye "cuts" would have required light and a scalpel.

There was no mention of her being wet from the rain ..... or vice versa.

Now where could she have been?

I've always raised eyebrow with the "how much light" thing.
How dark is to dark?
I cant amagin it was like working with your eyes closed kind of dark.
In reality, a body is quite small close up,even a dark silhouette would be enough.

what I find more puzzling is that why would a policeman think a rag in the dark dumped in a doorway suspicious?..and red blood doesn't show out in the dark, so it wouldn't have stood out as a blood soaked rag.
just saying!

[miakaal4]

It could well be the case that Watkins missed her at 01.30. We have to assume he was being totally honest, but when you think on it, he was a City cop and had absolutely no reason to believe he was about to find another victim that morning. He may well have chatted too long to a crony then shortcutted through a building or an ally. Or perhaps just gave a quick look as he passed through the square. To admit dereliction during such an important event would have him vilified in the Press and with his superiors. I'm not saying this is how it happened but it makes sense.

[Herlock Sholmes]

What scenario is that?

That she was killed where she was found but Miakaal wasnt suggesting otherwise.