Lawende is a red herring.

[Scott Nelson]

Thanks for this Simon. I wrote an article about it years ago, but couldn't remember the timeline very well.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

South Wales Echo 18th February 1891 -



Stay safe.

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

The press from the Sadler investigation. Sadler's whereabouts weren't established until, if I remember correctly, early March of that year.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

Whom were the police attempting to divert from what?

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

Hi Simon,

If, as you say, the other papers had pretty much as the same verbiage, it is likely they copied it from a common source. And the police at the time were busy with the Sadler investigation and didn't want to deal with meddlesome pressmen, so they gave a diversionary story out about an identification attempt. Just my theory.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

Why do you feel that way?

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

18th or19th February 1891.

They're all pretty much the same.

Thanks Simon. My feeling is that police fed this identification story to the Daily Telegraph and they syndicated it to other papers.

[Wickerman]

I think we have to remember there were several detectives on the case for Scotland Yard, they don't all need to see eye to eye. We know of Abberline, Reid, Moore, Nairn, to name a few. We might have one report across Swanson's desk that Lawende's sighting was not trusted, but another detective might decide to use Lawende sometime later for an I.D.
We shouldn't assume there was a collective 'Scotland Yard view' on every issue, detectives were independently minded. We have the press to thank for that collective interpretation just from the way they report the news.

[Michael W Richards]

Good luck with that, Michael.

Harry Harris claimed he'd seen nothing.

Hyam Levy testified—

"I should think he was three inches taller than the woman, who was, perhaps, 5ft high."

But look on the bright side.

At the very least, Levy's testimony rules out Francis Tumblety. He was over six feet tall.

Also, Sadler had ears that stuck out like a London cab with its doors open.

It's the sort of detail Lawende, Hyman and Harris might have noticed.

I know your point on what they said themselves with respect to their observances Simon, just not sure I can trust it. I don't see Lawende as much value in the case of Kates murder, let alone other Jack events. If they did use him, potentially a few times, then I suppose his denial of the ability to recognize the man he described within 2 weeks of making the statement is untrustworthy. On the face of it, it seems odd that they would flog a dead horse.

[Simon Wood]

Good luck with that, Michael.

Harry Harris claimed he'd seen nothing.

Hyam Levy testified—

"I should think he was three inches taller than the woman, who was, perhaps, 5ft high."

But look on the bright side.

At the very least, Levy's testimony rules out Francis Tumblety. He was over six feet tall.

Also, Sadler had ears that stuck out like a London cab with its doors open.

It's the sort of detail Lawende, Hyman and Harris might have noticed.

[Michael W Richards]

I agree with you.

Hope springs eternal in the policeman's breast.

Simon

Unless of course one of the other three wiseman that night was actually the one they later used with Sadler. One of them that had a connection to an actual suspect recorded in some documents, as I recall.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

18th or19th February 1891.

They're all pretty much the same.

Simon

[Scott Nelson]

The story also appeared in -

Portsmouth Evening News
South Wales Echo
South Wales Daily News
Birmingham Mail

Thanks Simon. You wouldn't happen to have the dates on hand would you?

More importantly, did these newspaper stories copy one source (the DT?) or was the wording different in each paper?

[Simon Wood]

I agree with you.

Hope springs eternal in the policeman's breast.

Simon

[Michael W Richards]

Whom else might the witness have been, Michael?

Daily Telegraph, 18th February 1891—

“Probably the only trustworthy description of the assassin was that given by a gentleman who, on the night of the Mitre Square murder, noticed in Duke Street, Aldgate, a couple standing under the lamp at the corner of the passage leading to Mitre Square. The woman was identified as one victim of that night, Sept. 30, the other having been killed an hour previously in Berner Street . . . The witness has confronted Sadler and has failed to identify him.”

Hello my friend,

I think that may indicate that Lawende was used there Simon, but it still doesnt address the fact he himself couldnt even recognize the man seen with the woman, let alone the woman, 2 weeks after the event. To me it says grasping at straws, or trying to make lemonade from lemons gone bad some time before.