Who's talking Cobblers ? John Richardson ?

[lynn cates]

fencing

Hello Colin. Perhaps he hypothesised that the assailant were wont to go over the fence?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

learning

Hello Magpie. No reason to apologise. I learn a good bit more from my faux pas than any other way.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Long et al

Hello MB.

"Richardson is unreliable"

Tend to agree.

"Cadosh is unsure"

Hmm, can you live with imprecise?

"Long is Confused"

About what? The bell striking, surely? Else, she recognised Annie by her face--rare for the WCM witnesses. Most were by clothing.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

" Were "FLM" and the lady, punter and unfortunate? If not, one wonders why they did not come forward. If they were, why did they not go into the yard for sex? If they were leaving the yard, why did they not see Annie?"

YES maybe 'FLM" was with unfortunate. And yes.. maybe , they did go through to the back yard next door to 29 for whatever. so we'd have Cadosh in the yard left of 29 , Annie , Dead in the yard of 29, "FLM" and unfortunate in the yard to the right of 29. Three different yards , each with their own entrance and exit's .. hence , when "FLM + unfortunate left the back yard .. Annie was Across the fence , how could they see her ? it doesn't even have to be an immediate yard .. but one in close proximity .. The acoustics that time in the morning would mean a sound quite a distance off could in fact sound relatively close, given the close proximity of the buildings and the crisp morning air .

moonbegger.

[Bridewell]

Did Mrs. Long see Annie's slayer? Formerly, I thought not. Now, I think so.

So do I, Lynn.

Were "FLM" and the lady, punter and unfortunate? If not, one wonders why they did not come forward. If they were, why did they not go into the yard for sex? If they were leaving the yard, why did they not see Annie?

And that's why.

The coroner, unusually, preferred Mrs Long's evidence over that of the police surgeon in determining time of death. This suggests that she was a compelling witness.
He also asked Chandler whether the fence between No.29 & No.27 would have supported the weight of a man. Why?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Magpie]

Hello Magpie. New one on me. Are you thinking of facial discolouration?

Cheers.
LC

My apologies, I was thinking of Liz Stride. My mistake.

[moonbegger]

One is led almost to believe he was never there at all...was elbowed into testifying by his dear old mum (who thought he was), realised he'd backed himself into a corner, then started embroidering...first the trimmed boot story, then the rusty knife addition, then the non-trimmed boot story...I don't think he makes a particularly credible witness at all...in fact he made a proper old cat's dinner of it!

Dave

Hi Dave ,

I can live with that .. Like i said ( Richardson is unreliable , cadosh is unsure , and Long is Confused )

cheers .
moonbegger .

[lynn cates]

discolouration

Hello Magpie. New one on me. Are you thinking of facial discolouration?

Cheers.
LC

[Magpie]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there also some sign of surface decomposition as well as the rigor?

[Hunter]

Ditto to that, Lynn.

Its like picking an apple you want from a tree; you shake the limb doing it and a whole bunch more fall around you... and some of 'ums gonna have worms in 'em.

[lynn cates]

bienvenidos, Amigo

Hello MB. Welcome to ripper studies. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Holy Cow ..
I started this thread to try and clean up the mess , Not add to it

[Mitch Rowe]

Hi Mitch ,

The only problem with that is , According to Dr Phillips , Annie would still have been dead n the yard at least 25 mins by the time Richardson showed up at 4.45am ..
i do think however, he either saw her dead body , and for the reasons you mention, he panicked , also the fact that he was at the scene of a fresh murder and in possession of a knife ( and not the blunt one he produced for the inquest ) baring he mind he's thinking he may be in some altercation with some thieves who were breaking into the yard lock up, he would want some protection ( just like any of us would pick up a baseball bat or some kind of a weapon if we had to confront someone breaking into our house or yard )
Either that or like i mentioned , he only half opened the door and peered to the right completely missing Annies body .

cheers

moonbegger

25 mins isnt too far to be off. If Richardson had seen the body I think that he would have been startled enough to report to Police ASAP. But if he saw them both alive he may have thought they were just another punter and prossy. For all we know he may have confronted them. Told them this was his Mothers house and accepted payment to leave them alone. Annie may have given him her rings if she had felt she was going to make more money from JTRs possibly generous offer of payment for her services. If that was the case Richardson would have been highly motivated to lie.

[Cogidubnus]

Richardson

Either that or like i mentioned , he only half opened the door and peered to the right completely missing Annies body .

One is led almost to believe he was never there at all...was elbowed into testifying by his dear old mum (who thought he was), realised he'd backed himself into a corner, then started embroidering...first the trimmed boot story, then the rusty knife addition, then the non-trimmed boot story...I don't think he makes a particularly credible witness at all...in fact he made a proper old cat's dinner of it!

Dave

[moonbegger]

Maybe Richardson actually confronted or saw Annie and JTR in the hallway or heard something and decided to leave. Then after Annie was found he was afraid for his Mothers safety and made up a story to tell Police? If he didnt know at the time of the confrontation that he was talking to JTR and then left for work he might have been very frightened later. He puts himself ther in case of witnesses who may have seen him. He makes up a story about cutting the boot to make others believe Annie was not there so he doesnt have to explain much. When he realizes that Police may ask why they didnt find a piece of leather he says the knife was dull.

Hi Mitch ,

The only problem with that is , According to Dr Phillips , Annie would still have been dead n the yard at least 25 mins by the time Richardson showed up at 4.45am ..
i do think however, he either saw her dead body , and for the reasons you mention, he panicked , also the fact that he was at the scene of a fresh murder and in possession of a knife ( and not the blunt one he produced for the inquest ) baring he mind he's thinking he may be in some altercation with some thieves who were breaking into the yard lock up, he would want some protection ( just like any of us would pick up a baseball bat or some kind of a weapon if we had to confront someone breaking into our house or yard )
Either that or like i mentioned , he only half opened the door and peered to the right completely missing Annies body .

cheers

moonbegger