Hutch's Man

[Abby Normal]

You include Bowyer?
Yet, the one man who accosted women in the street, tried to get them to accompany him down dark ally's, and was seen with a woman outside the Britannia on the night Kelly was murdered, he gets a free pass?

and his behavior frightened them off too!.

[Roy Corduroy]

Good evening Mr Normal,

... your poll dosnt include the obvious choices like none of the above, other or no one (many people believe that aman was fictional).

I've never been in a voting booth where one of the choices is Nobody.

You see, this poll is for people who believe George Hutchinson saw a man with Mary Kelly. It allows the voter to choose WHO he thinks that person was. That's why it's in the Witness Section, not Suspects. There are already Ten 10 (countem') 10 thousand George Hutchinson Suspect threads questioning his veracity. This is not one of them.

Nor it is a generic Kelly-thon.

You've got it all backwards. Hope this helps.

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

Well Buckle My Shoe, Michael, long time no see -

Please include "no-one' if you are going to re-start the thread, I personally do not believe George was there at all that night.

Sorry but as I explained to Mr. Normal, I've yet to enter a voting booth where one of the choices is Nobody.

The good news is, if you skip Version 2 of Hutch's Man and the ten suspects listed there, surely you will vote in Version 3, also coming soon because YOUR favorite suspect will be included on the list. That's right-- Mr. you know who. See you soon in V3.

Roy

[Sam Flynn]

The good news is, if you skip Version 2 of Hutch's Man and the ten suspects listed there, surely you will vote in Version 3, also coming soon because YOUR favorite suspect will be included on the list. That's right-- Mr. you know who. See you soon in V3.

Ah, but who's to say that anyone's favourite suspect was involved? V3 it is, then

[Wickerman]

........ I personally do not believe George was there at all that night.

Hi Michael.

So, did Hutch just place himself at the right time & place out of shear luck?

[Busy Beaver]

You include Bowyer?
Yet, the one man who accosted women in the street, tried to get them to accompany him down dark ally's, and was seen with a woman outside the Britannia on the night Kelly was murdered, he gets a free pass?

IS this man aka "a man","Bethnal Green Botherer" or "Brittania man"? I have just included men who were known to had actually gone up Millar's Court that night. It is not impossible that one of these three men accompanied MJK up to the court and then murdered her between 0.315am and 0.400am. As all the other men had gone by this time.

[Michael W Richards]

Ok, the above is not clear. If you fancy Blotchy as the killer, then Kelly was killed before or about 1:00, and he spends the next 1-2 hours slicing her up....
I would have thought you could see the possibility of her being dead by 2:30.

I believe that there is a strong possibility that the murder itself didn't begin until sometime around 4 or so...I think the loitering man expected Blotchy out of there before that time. He eventually gave up and left. Blotchy entered the room, we know that. We don't know when he left, but does "oh-murder" come from Marys lips and would Blotchy wait that long to strike? Is "oh-murder" the arrival time of the killer, and Mary is alone at the time? Blotchy has to be considered the top suspect because he is the only man we know entered that room that night with Mary. But I cant say Im 100% convinced that 3:45 isnt the time the killer gets there, or first acts, and I believe its someone other than Blotchy returning if that's the case. I cant really say there is sufficient evidence to state this, but I do think its possible, if Blotchy ws our man legitimately, Blotchy could have slept with Mary before killing her. If he is there to kill her, and a man capable of such a crime, whose to know what transpired on the way there? Maybe he used a pretty young girl he knew he would kill....and that's really cold. Almost as cold as the killer who seems to have sliced up Mary over some time, taking great pains to do things to her that are completely unnecessary in a quest for organs.

My belief however doesn't translate into a named suspect to compete with Mr Blotchy.

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Michael.

So, did Hutch just place himself at the right time & place out of shear luck?

I think Jon that Hutch either decided to himself, taking 4 days to do so.. or was persuaded to do so, when the opportunity created itself with the statements by Lewis on Friday. I also think the Pardon factored into the decision to come forward at all...it indicated that the authorities were willing to look at this unknown character closer without the pre-established motive of arresting him and prosecuting him. The risk of assuming Wideawakes position was greatly reduced.

I believe that Hutchinsons story is intended to answer questions relating to Wideawake to settle any urgency they might have felt to catch up with this fellow. He became a benign "friend" of Marys. Someone she, for some reason, tried to get money from after coming home very drunk before midnight. He was a somewhat creepy older guy looking out for her...albeit in stalker fashion. I liken the motive of this statement to the motives of Israel Schwartz's statements that Sunday night...intended to deflect suspicions.

[Busy Beaver]

I think Jon that Hutch either decided to himself, taking 4 days to do so.. or was persuaded to do so, when the opportunity created itself with the statements by Lewis on Friday. I also think the Pardon factored into the decision to come forward at all...it indicated that the authorities were willing to look at this unknown character closer without the pre-established motive of arresting him and prosecuting him. The risk of assuming Wideawakes position was greatly reduced.

I believe that Hutchinsons story is intended to answer questions relating to Wideawake to settle any urgency they might have felt to catch up with this fellow. He became a benign "friend" of Marys. Someone she, for some reason, tried to get money from after coming home very drunk before midnight. He was a somewhat creepy older guy looking out for her...albeit in stalker fashion. I liken the motive of this statement to the motives of Israel Schwartz's statements that Sunday night...intended to deflect suspicions.

Hutch wasn't a creepy older bloke though, he was 22 years of age in 1888 and anywhere between 2 and 10 years younger than Mary-Jane Kelly. I still think his story is odd. Why would a lady, who probably had been given money from Blotchy, come out of her room and walk quite a way down the street to ask someone for sixpence? She could have gone to one of the neighbours instead. Unless she just happened to be walking down the road (looking for a client?) and clocked Hutchison and decided to ask him to lend her the money there and then. Hutch could also have tried to proposition Mary and she said no, just lend me the money. Who knows what words were really exchanged. Then along came Astrachan man- Did he come into Whitechapel dressed as a wealthy Jew to suss out a man in the area who could have been the ripper for the reward money? Found MJK too good not to turn down and realised he made a right a**e of what he set out to do and was never ever seen again.

[Abby Normal]

Hutch wasn't a creepy older bloke though, he was 22 years of age in 1888 and anywhere between 2 and 10 years younger than Mary-Jane Kelly. I still think his story is odd. Why would a lady, who probably had been given money from Blotchy, come out of her room and walk quite a way down the street to ask someone for sixpence? She could have gone to one of the neighbours instead. Unless she just happened to be walking down the road (looking for a client?) and clocked Hutchison and decided to ask him to lend her the money there and then. Hutch could also have tried to proposition Mary and she said no, just lend me the money. Who knows what words were really exchanged. Then along came Astrachan man- Did he come into Whitechapel dressed as a wealthy Jew to suss out a man in the area who could have been the ripper for the reward money? Found MJK too good not to turn down and realised he made a right a**e of what he set out to do and was never ever seen again.

hi busy
you bring up a good point re blotchy. she would have presumably had money from him-she at least had drink and probably food. why would she venture out again?
money in her pocket, food in her belly, roof over her head, enjoyed the companionship of blotchy for a while (singing and hanging out), rainy night, warm fire, looking forward to the show the next day. No credible witness sees her again that night out.

IMHO I think in all probability Mary never went out again after blotchy, nor had any intention to.

[rjpalmer]

Hutch wasn't a creepy older bloke though, he was 22 years of age in 1888.

Toppy lives!

why would she venture out again?

It's called employment.

[Sam Flynn]

Toppy lives!

He certainly does!

[Wickerman]

IS this man aka "a man","Bethnal Green Botherer" or "Brittania man"? I have just included men who were known to had actually gone up Millar's Court that night. It is not impossible that one of these three men accompanied MJK up to the court and then murdered her between 0.315am and 0.400am. As all the other men had gone by this time.

The "A-man" is the man seen by Hutchinson - aka Astrachan.
The Bethnal Green Botherer is the same as Britannia man. He accosted women in Bethnal Green road then was seen on Friday morning loitering outside the Britannia pub.

[Michael W Richards]

Toppy lives!

It's called employment.

Funny line about Toppy RJ, but with Mary we have historical precedent for her having being evicted before for doing exactly what she is doing at the time she is murdered, running arrears again. And we have historical data that says she had not been working regularly up to that point. Work was for those that worked...Mary didn't seem to have that ethic.

[Wickerman]

...... she would have presumably had money from him-she at least had drink and probably food. why would she venture out again?

Hi Abby.
Do you think hookers settle for one client a night?

.....money in her pocket, food in her belly, roof over her head, enjoyed the companionship of blotchy for a while (singing and hanging out), rainy night, warm fire,..

We don't know if there was a fire while she was alive, unless we imagine her burning her own clothes?

....looking forward to the show the next day.

And there's another reason to have some spare change in her pcket.

No credible witness sees her again that night out.

Does that mean "several persons in Millers Court", are not credible?

Although no evidence was produced at the inquest as to her having left her room after one o'clock, at which time she was heard singing, the police have obtained statements from several persons who reside in Millers Court, that she was out of her house and in Dorset street between two and three o'clock. It appears almost certain that her life was taken about the last named hour.
Morning Advertiser, 14 Nov. 1888.