Hutch's Man

[Busy Beaver]

Blotchy is a good suspect, but I do strongly feel that there was no way that Jack was going let himself be seen by anyone. The next suspects in no particular order are Astrachan Man, Bowyer and Hutch. Failing that MJK must have come out of her room after Astrachan man if this sighting by Hutch is correct. By this time Hutch has gone, Ms Lewis is tucked up in bed as is Mrs Cox, Prater and Mrs Kennedy if she also exists. Bowyer saw nothing (or did he?) whilst using the tap. It might just be fair to say that the 0.400am call of murder was indeed MJK. Jack obviously felt comfortable going to the court, went in to the room, murdered and took off again before he was seen and yes, he would have been a trapped rat if he stayed any longer than he felt comfortable with. Jack 1, everyone else a big fat 0.

[Abby Normal]

Blotchy is a good suspect, but I do strongly feel that there was no way that Jack was going let himself be seen by anyone. The next suspects in no particular order are Astrachan Man, Bowyer and Hutch. Failing that MJK must have come out of her room after Astrachan man if this sighting by Hutch is correct. By this time Hutch has gone, Ms Lewis is tucked up in bed as is Mrs Cox, Prater and Mrs Kennedy if she also exists. Bowyer saw nothing (or did he?) whilst using the tap. It might just be fair to say that the 0.400am call of murder was indeed MJK. Jack obviously felt comfortable going to the court, went in to the room, murdered and took off again before he was seen and yes, he would have been a trapped rat if he stayed any longer than he felt comfortable with. Jack 1, everyone else a big fat 0.

hi Busy
if the cries of murder were from Mary, and I think they were, then her TOD is around 4 am. so either Aman was her killer or someone else. I would posit that hutch was probably lying about Aman, which IMHO would leave blotchy or hutch as suspects 1 and 1a.

in my favored scenario, hutch waited around until three to either see if aman left (doubtful) or got sick of waiting for whoever really was in there (probably blotchy) to leave, and left about three (to go look for another victim?, kill time etc.) and then returned to marys room around four discovered she was now alone and gained access to her room and murdered her.

I also don't rule out Bowyer and Barnett either going to her room at 4 am and killing her also. to me seems the circs point to mary knowing her killer.

[Cogidubnus]

Jon,
Suppose you surprise me.Which one did you select.Perhaps my source was not from a newspaper.

Daily Telegraph report of the Inquest is the one more usually quoted isn't it?

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

Blotchy is a good suspect, but I do strongly feel that there was no way that Jack was going let himself be seen by anyone. The next suspects in no particular order are Astrachan Man, Bowyer and Hutch. Failing that MJK must have come out of her room after Astrachan man if this sighting by Hutch is correct. By this time Hutch has gone, Ms Lewis is tucked up in bed as is Mrs Cox, Prater and Mrs Kennedy if she also exists. Bowyer saw nothing (or did he?) whilst using the tap. It might just be fair to say that the 0.400am call of murder was indeed MJK. Jack obviously felt comfortable going to the court, went in to the room, murdered and took off again before he was seen and yes, he would have been a trapped rat if he stayed any longer than he felt comfortable with. Jack 1, everyone else a big fat 0.

Ms Lewes was possibly sleeping less than comfortably, downstairs, in one of her host's chairs...the dwellings in the court weren't very large...so it might not take much to arouse her...possibly less a scream than a call?

I certainly find more to believe in with Blotchy and Hutch (god...shades of a cart with a go-faster stripe ) than A-Man, who always strikes me as an over-detailed invention...

Dave

[Joshua Rogan]

Daily News
"I know a Mrs. Keiller, in Miller's-court, and went to see her on Friday morning at 2.30 o'clock by Spitalfields Church clock."

"On Friday morning as I was going to Miller's-court, about half-past two, I saw him again with a female in Commercial-street"

Daily Telegraph
"went to her house at 2, Miller's-court, at 2.30a.m. on Friday. It is the first house. I noticed the time by Spitalfields' Church clock."

"On Friday morning, about half-past two a.m., when I was going ing to Miller's-court, I met the same man with a woman in Commercial-street"

Echo
"On Friday morning witness was at No. 2 Room, Miller's-court, at half-past two o'clock. She went to call on a woman she knew - Mrs. Keyler. It was half-past two by Spitalfields' Church clock."
"On Friday morning last, when going to Miller's-court, about half-past two, I met the same man with a female."

MA
"I know Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, and saw her on Friday morning about 2;30 a.m. This I noticed by Spitalfields Church clock"
"On Friday morning, about half-past two, on my way to Miller's-court, I met the same man"

St James' Gazette
"said she was at No 2 Room, Miller's court, at half past two o'clock on Friday morning."
"At half past two o'clock on Friday morning the witness saw the same man with a woman near the Britannia public house in Commercial street."

Times
"she went to the house of Mrs. Keyler, in Miller's-court, on Friday morning about 2:30"
"on Friday morning about 2:30 she saw him again, speaking to a woman in Commercial-street"

[Sam Flynn]

I certainly find more to believe in with Blotchy and Hutch (god...shades of a cart with a go-faster stripe )

Presumably Mr Astrakhan was Huggy Bear.

[Roy Corduroy]

Very well then.

Since this poll garnered a grand total of 9 votes before devolving into a generic Kelly-thong (Oops I mean Kelly-thon) I will shortly begin a new poll with ten brand new suspects for you to select the man you think George Hutchinson saw. As was the original purpose.

Your ob serv,

Roy

[Abby Normal]

well since "hutch's man" was supposed to be seen with Kelly, any discussion about Kelly, her movements and witnesses would be germaine wouldn't it?

and besides your poll dosnt include the obvious choices like none of the above, other or no one (many people believe that aman was fictional).

[Cogidubnus]

Presumably Mr Astrakhan was Huggy Bear.

More like a Cheshire Cat I'd say...or perhaps it was Hutch who really invented Mr Carker's grin...

Dave

[Busy Beaver]

I fear this whole Ripper episode is just one big jigsaw, where the missing pieces are just impossible to find and fit.

[Cogidubnus]

I fear this whole Ripper episode is just one big jigsaw, where the missing pieces are just impossible to find and fit.

Hi Busy Beaver...I think there are so many pieces missing, most of us are struggling to keep the borders straight, and are quite content when any little piece fits reasonably well inside them...I don't think in reality, many of us are here looking for an elusive "Jack" as folk outside Ripper circles are apt to think...most of us are just hooked on the digging, or the organising of facts, or working out the logic, or just studying an interesting cast of people at a fascinating juncture in history...or more importantly remembering the hard lives of people essentially not so different to ourselves living in a society which isn't, in some respects, so very different to ours...

Sorry, I grow maudlin with age...

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

Very well then.

Since this poll garnered a grand total of 9 votes before devolving into a generic Kelly-thong (Oops I mean Kelly-thon) I will shortly begin a new poll with ten brand new suspects for you to select the man you think George Hutchinson saw. As was the original purpose.

Your ob serv,

Roy

Please include "no-one' if you are going to re-start the thread, I personally do not believe George was there at all that night.

[Wickerman]

Jon,
Suppose you surprise me.Which one did you select.Perhaps my source was not from a newspaper.

Ok Harry, but I thought I already made that clear. You brought up Abberline, Lewis only spoke to Abberline once, in her police statement. Which I quoted to you in it's entirety.
My second quote was from the inquest record, not a newspaper.

Why does this time really matter?
We cannot pin Hutchinson's timing down to the minute anywhere in Dorset street, and without that there is no argument.

[Wickerman]

Jon, the issues I would have with the notion of Mary being dead by 2:30 are these...is it feasible to presume that the killer did all that work in near darkness?

Don't misunderstand me Michael, I am not suggesting I believe she was dead by 2:30.
I am proposing that the coroner may have considered this because he may have known about Dr Bond's estimated time of death, and that Cox's suspect (Blotchy) was a best fit for what Dr Bond proposed.
Therefore, the coroner viewed this loiterer as potentially an accomplice, after the fact. Which is what the Pardon was concerned with.

I think Blotchy is the best suspect here, for one we KNOW he entered the room that night with Mary, we have a courtyard resident that confirms that fact. And for another, it would seem that we cannot confirm he left that room before 1:30..only that is was dark and quiet by then. But I still cant wrap my head around a killer who I suppose could accomplish what was done in near darkness in what, an hour or so?..then staying in the room afterwards while hearing bootsteps pass the door throughout the night. The trapped rat thing.

Ok, the above is not clear. If you fancy Blotchy as the killer, then Kelly was killed before or about 1:00, and he spends the next 1-2 hours slicing her up....
I would have thought you could see the possibility of her being dead by 2:30.

[Wickerman]

Blotchy is a good suspect, but I do strongly feel that there was no way that Jack was going let himself be seen by anyone. The next suspects in no particular order are Astrachan Man, Bowyer and Hutch. Failing that MJK must have come out of her room after Astrachan man if this sighting by Hutch is correct. By this time Hutch has gone, Ms Lewis is tucked up in bed as is Mrs Cox, Prater and Mrs Kennedy if she also exists. Bowyer saw nothing (or did he?) whilst using the tap. It might just be fair to say that the 0.400am call of murder was indeed MJK. Jack obviously felt comfortable going to the court, went in to the room, murdered and took off again before he was seen and yes, he would have been a trapped rat if he stayed any longer than he felt comfortable with. Jack 1, everyone else a big fat 0.

You include Bowyer?
Yet, the one man who accosted women in the street, tried to get them to accompany him down dark ally's, and was seen with a woman outside the Britannia on the night Kelly was murdered, he gets a free pass?