Did Mary know her killer?

[Abby Normal]

Maurice Lewis sees Mary Kelly in the morning as well as Maxwell. Doesn't that mean it's somewhat corroborated?

Hi rocky
well, since Mr Lewis says he saw her at 10:00 am in a bar drinking and her body was discovered approx. 10:45am think we can safely rule out his sighting.

I think we can rule out Maxwells sighting as well for several reasons:

1. TOD by the drs. I know TOD is not exact but I doubt they could have been that off.

2. Her account was questioned by the coroner.

3. Since marys face was so mangled, Maxwell could not have IDed her anyway as the women she saw.

4. The large fire and burnt cloths indicate a much earlier and longer time period that Mary was with her killer than what the Maxwell sighting would allow.

5. Someone so sick as mary was according to Maxwell would doubtfully be in any shape to engage clients for prostitution.

6. She admitted she didn't know her that well, so maybe she had her mixed up with someone else.

Im not sure what was going on with Maxwell but I think we can rule her out as well.

[Robert]

What if MJK's killer actually knocked, waited for her to open the door and then put his foot in it to prevent her from closing it?

It would mean he was a door-to-door salesman.

[lynn cates]

Good night.

Hello Amanda.

"What if MJK's killer actually knocked, waited for her to open the door and then put his foot in it to prevent her from closing it?

If Jack was a large/strong man it probably wouldn't have taken much force to push his way in.
Supposing this to be the case, why didn't she scream for help?"

And why did she go back to bed?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Make mine Irish.

Hello CD.

"prostitutes routinely go off to dark places and have sex with someone they just met."

Not to mention regaling them with strains of Irish folk music.

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Thanks Errata. Are you a Hutchinsonian?

[Batman]

Uncorroborated stories?, you can add Cox to that list.

Prater corroborated Cox.

Hence why Cox made the inquest unlike some others.

[Amanda]

Just to add....

Hi All,
Just want to add one scenario that I feel may have been missed.

What if MJK's killer actually knocked, waited for her to open the door and then put his foot in it to prevent her from closing it?

If Jack was a large/strong man it probably wouldn't have taken much force to push his way in.
Supposing this to be the case, why didn't she scream for help? Perhaps she did know him but in a negative context, maybe owing him money or him being a former lover.
I feel that poor Mary, due to the terrible mutilation of her body, was more of a revenge or personal hatred killing rather than a random attack.

Amanda

[Errata]

Could you expand, Errata?

The pose, the facial injuries, the missing heart... if you were writing a screenplay for a horror movie about an insane stalker, Mary Kelly is exactly what the murder would look like, adding only obsessive scrawling on the walls and possible a hanged culprit in the corner. Kelly's murder is different than the others, and it's about the tone and potential message sent. It feels targeted. Which doesn't mean Kelly was killed by someone else necessarily, but I think it does mean she was killed for a different reason. I mean, this guy could have sold her buttons a few times and that was enough for him to decide they were destined to be together. He didn't have to actually know her. Most stalkers don't know their victims. They make up a story. And Kelly's killer could have had some little lost girl who just needed a kind man to take her away from the squalor of her life thing going on. Pretty common fantasy. She breaks the fantasy and he kills her. It's personal because he thought he knew her. She failed him. Rationally you can't fail someone you don't know. Tell a stalker that, though.

It feels personal. That doesn't mean actual knowledge of each other. It means he saw her at some point and got insanely attached. He thought they were soulmates. Sure, it was because she smiled at him when he dropped his paper across the street from her, but for him it was enough.

[GUT]

I let an absolute stranger wander about my house for about 5 minutes because I assumed it was my fiance coming home. He had been on second shift, so he was getting home at about one, so I just went back to sleep when I heard the door open. It took me a few minutes to realize that my fiance was two feet away from me in bed to realize my error. He had gotten off second shift a week earlier. I had to usher my drunk neighbor out of our bathroom back to his home.

Weird things happen, for lack of a better phrase. Sure, it makes sense that the reason she wouldn't react to the killer's entrance is because she knew him. It's just not the only reason. Carelessness, habit, and booze are also all powerful factors in letting a stranger wander around your room.

Or even a really sound sleeper, I had an Uncle and one year we let a twopenny banger [really loud firework] off under his bedroom window, he slept right through.

[Errata]

Considering that there is no evidence that the killer entered the room from any other access point than the door, and that we hear of a cry from the "courtyard" that 2 people hear at 3:45 that is claimed by no living person, and since Mary is attacked while on the right side of the bed...on her right side... facing the wall, ..I would think that its almost a certainty that the killer was granted access to the room.

Making him a known person to Mary.
Cheers

I let an absolute stranger wander about my house for about 5 minutes because I assumed it was my fiance coming home. He had been on second shift, so he was getting home at about one, so I just went back to sleep when I heard the door open. It took me a few minutes to realize that my fiance was two feet away from me in bed to realize my error. He had gotten off second shift a week earlier. I had to usher my drunk neighbor out of our bathroom back to his home.

Weird things happen, for lack of a better phrase. Sure, it makes sense that the reason she wouldn't react to the killer's entrance is because she knew him. It's just not the only reason. Carelessness, habit, and booze are also all powerful factors in letting a stranger wander around your room.

[RockySullivan]

Maurice Lewis sees Mary Kelly in the morning as well as Maxwell. Doesn't that mean it's somewhat corroborated?

[Wickerman]

Maxwell, like Kennedy, like Hutchinson, like Paker is just yet another of many attention seekers who contribute nothing and can't be corroborated by anybody else, of which the Whitechapel investigators had hoards to deal with.

Uncorroborated stories?, you can add Cox to that list.

[c.d.]

I forgot to add that opening the door to someone she barely knew or even a stranger is not at all far fetched and would be in keeping with what prostitutes had to resort to to make a living.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

But the question is known to her in what way? As GUT points out, prostitutes routinely go off to dark places and have sex with someone they just met. So "knowing" in this case always has to be qualified from that perspective.

c.d.

[GUT]

Just because she granted some person access to her room does not automatically mean the killer was known to her. It's Certianly a possibility but far from a drawn out conclusion.

Especially for a prostitute.