Did Mary know her killer?

[GUT]

So one of the soap opera cast knocks on Mary's door, she opens it and screams Oh Murder. And that's how we know she knew her killer? No I don't understand that.

But let me ask you this Michael - When somebody you know knocks on your door do you open it and scream Oh Murder? Often, or just sometimes

And then go and lay on the bed waiting quietly to be ripped?

[Paddy Goose]

she answered her door when she made the exclamation

So one of the soap opera cast knocks on Mary's door, she opens it and screams Oh Murder. And that's how we know she knew her killer? No I don't understand that.

But let me ask you this Michael - When somebody you know knocks on your door do you open it and scream Oh Murder? Often, or just sometimes

[Michael W Richards]

It's too bizarre and otherworldly, the manner of her death. No, Mary Kelly did not know her murderer.

Not a soap opera

I just addressed the flaws with that very assumption on another thread...from the Stout JTR Thread......"One very important thing must be factored when people try to provide a timeline for Marys murder....the call at 3:45 was almost surely from Mary, no-one from the courtyard claimed to have made the call and no-one else came forward to say it was them calling out "oh-murder", and the only person unable to claim that voice is the dead person. There was no sound coming from Marys room after that call. And we have 2 witnesses awake listening for follow up cries, one witness heard the call "as if from the court", and one heard it "as if at the front door". Since the second witness was actually in the courtyard at the time, and the first in the house at 26 above Mary....there is every reason to suspect the call was Mary's, likely from her open door, based on the volumes the statements contain. Which means....the attack did not start with "oh-murder", Mary was alive at that time, and she answered her door when she made the exclamation...the knock was what woke diddles as well.

So the prelude to the murder indicates...known man to Mary, murder after 3:45 when people fell asleep again, and Mary in bed on her right side, facing the wall, when attacked. Anyone who doesn't see a personal relationship between killer and victim should look again".

People often illogically base their opinions on some matters using their "gut"...I suggest the brain is a much better tool and well suited for the task.

Cheers

[GUT]

The whereabouts of Nichols and Chapman (and Tabram) in the hours prior to their deaths is unknown. We don't know how much time they spent with their killer before he murdered them - it could potentially have been hours. Elizabeth Stride was near her murder scene for quite a bit of time before she was found dead - apparently chatting with men. Again, we have the possibility that the man who killed her spent some time with her.

Eddowes is the exception. We know she had a pretty compressed timeline between being released from prison and being found dead in Mitre Square. The killer's timeline is also compressed if you believe he killed Stride as well. But still, she could have spent a solid half hour or so with her killer. And Kelly, as we all know, could have been with her killer for hours.

So yes, there is nothing saying that the ripper (or rippers if you are lynn or michael) could not have chatted up their victims, perhaps even at length, before striking. There's obviously no proof of this, but it's not inconsistent with the evidence for the killer to have been a chatty fellow who got to know his victims first.

There is nothing to rule the possibility of him spending time with one or more victim, unfortunately at the opposite end of the scale there is nothing to rule out a blitz attack either.

[Damaso Marte]

If we believe Cadosch, Jack was able to at least chat to his potential victims. He could have been in a good mood, Lord Mayor' Show, a day off and so on, and just went up to Mary and made some weak Victorian joke about her being open for business, or something. There's nothing to say that Jack wouldn't have been reasonably pleasant when he approached these women.

The whereabouts of Nichols and Chapman (and Tabram) in the hours prior to their deaths is unknown. We don't know how much time they spent with their killer before he murdered them - it could potentially have been hours. Elizabeth Stride was near her murder scene for quite a bit of time before she was found dead - apparently chatting with men. Again, we have the possibility that the man who killed her spent some time with her.

Eddowes is the exception. We know she had a pretty compressed timeline between being released from prison and being found dead in Mitre Square. The killer's timeline is also compressed if you believe he killed Stride as well. But still, she could have spent a solid half hour or so with her killer. And Kelly, as we all know, could have been with her killer for hours.

So yes, there is nothing saying that the ripper (or rippers if you are lynn or michael) could not have chatted up their victims, perhaps even at length, before striking. There's obviously no proof of this, but it's not inconsistent with the evidence for the killer to have been a chatty fellow who got to know his victims first.

[c.d.]

Hello Paddy,

I think the knowing part has two aspects to it. The first would be was the killing personal? I don't see anything personal in it. The second would involve Mary letting someone in to her room which is what I think she did. In that instance, I think just met would suffice.

c.d.

[Paddy Goose]

Again it comes down to what we mean by "know." That definition could include someone she just met that day so no soap opera type drama need be involved.

Hi c. d.

No, the definition of know is "have developed a relationship with (someone) through meeting and spending time with them; be familiar or friendly with"

someone she just met that day

In your example, the poll question would be: Was Mary Kelly murdered by someone she just met that day? Not by someone she knew. So yes, the soap opera light is on for those who fancy it The poll is not neutered by your suggestion.

[GUT]

And if you are a prostitute looking for a client you'll probably laugh at the lamest joke on earth, maybe even at one of my jokes.

[Rosella]

If we believe Cadosch, Jack was able to at least chat to his potential victims. He could have been in a good mood, Lord Mayor' Show, a day off and so on, and just went up to Mary and made some weak Victorian joke about her being open for business, or something. There's nothing to say that Jack wouldn't have been reasonably pleasant when he approached these women.

[c.d.]

It's too bizarre and otherworldly, the manner of her death. No, Mary Kelly did not know her murderer.

Not a soap opera

Again it comes down to what we mean by "know." That definition could include someone she just met that day so no soap opera type drama need be involved.

c.d.

[Paddy]

Not sure how you can deduce that just because a man taps a woman on the shoulder and says something and they both laugh that it means they met before? I mean surely any man can go up to any women he has never met before tap her on the shoulder and say something funny or witty to her which they can both have a bit of a chuckle over. Surely you don't think that isn't possible.

Yes you may be right if Jack was the witty banter type? I just think it pointed to a familiarity between them
We can only guess....

Pat..................

[Paddy Goose]

It's too bizarre and otherworldly, the manner of her death. No, Mary Kelly did not know her murderer.

Not a soap opera

[RockySullivan]

Those who have voted "no" should be banned.
At least for a while.
To think it through.

Well there's always the chance that the ripper snuck in using the broken window while Mary was sleeping. I tend to think the oh murder was more likely "murder!!" But a witness never wants to admit not helping someone when they could've prevented a death right? Or is maxwells sighting true and Mary was killed only just before bowyer discovered her? I do find the discovery to be a bit suspicious and it send possibly a set up.

[DVV]

Those who have voted "no" should be banned.
At least for a while.
To think it through.

[SirJohnFalstaff]

Maybe Astrakan man is the first man to coin "if I said you have a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?"