Mary Kelly. Where Else Can We Look?

[lynn cates]

identification

Hello Prosector. Thanks.

I was dealing only with the identification aspect you had brought up.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Prosector. There may have been some damage to her bones, in which case identification may be facilitated.

Cheers.
LC

Just look for the nearest grape vine.....

[Prosector]

Yes but the problem is that the cemetery superintendent thinks that we would need to dig up an area at least twenty feet square and there might be fifty or more burials in a public plot of that size. An attempt would have to be made to trace the living relatives of all those people and get their permission or show that they had no living relatives. A pretty tall order.Then you have the problem of DNA contamination from all the other bodies. I have had extensive discussions with specialist exhumation undertakers and forensic scientists and it looks pretty hopeless. It's not a question of cost because many of them would do it for nothing but it just seems to be an impossible task.

Prosector

[lynn cates]

bones

Hello Prosector. There may have been some damage to her bones, in which case identification may be facilitated.

Cheers.
LC

[Prosector]

Thanks, Sally. I can't imagine that a disinterment will ever be allowed but who knows? The irony is that there must be a family somewhere whose great-great aunt Mary (or whatever) disappeared in the 1880's and was never heard from again. I think our best hope is that someone will one day have a 'Eureka' moment and put his or her ancestor's name into the frame.

As a matter of interest I did apply to the Ministry of Justice for permission to exhume Marie Jeanette Kelly's body for purposes of obtaining DNA for identification purposes. I did so on behalf of someone who I have very good reason to believe is her closest living relative and who gave permission for the exhumation. There is actually no problem about getting permission as long as you provide good enough evidence of relationship (which I think I did). The problem we encountered was that she was buried in a public grave which has been re-used countless times since and, apart from having to get permission from the relatives of all those later burials, which would be nigh impossible, it is likely that all of the remains will now be so mixed up as to be impossible to identify the correct one. Furthermore the current headstone may be anything up to ten feet from the actual grave site.

Prosector

[Paddy]

A Mary Kelly in 1871

This Mary Kelly was born in Glamorgan Wales but living in Clevedon Street, Marylebone London....She is a niece.
Not sure if you can see this as I have had to crop it a bit as it wouldn't upload....The street number was 3 or 8
The head of house is a Henry Mcsweeny and his wife Margaret comes from Ireland
Pat........................

[Paddy]

Paddy, have you seen the original certificate or a transcription?

Hi Miss Marple, Yes I have seen the certificate on ancestry as they now have Birmingham marriages and banns.
I remember posting a link on casebook some time ago, that showed a report from the asylum about Burys mum, if anyone is interested. Very Sad...

forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=7113&page=4

Pat...............................

[Livia]

The original register does not include the notation
"deceased" for Henry Bury.

With only two exceptions, all the other marriages
for St Paul's Birmingham for the years 1872 through 1881,
also do not indicate the condition of the bride and groom's fathers.

There's a sample form filled in, in the front of the register
book which only lists the father's name and occupation, so
this may be why this bit of information was not included.

The two registers which do include "deceased" by the
father's name, appear to have been written by a
visiting vicar.

[miss marple]

Another mystery solved. Paddy, have you seen the original certificate or a transcription? The transcription may not mention the father was deceased but might on the certificate.

Miss Marple

[Paddy]

William Henry Burys parentage

Found the following info on Casebook...
William Henry Bury was born in Hill Street, Stourbridge, Worcestershire, on 25 May 1859. Little is known of his early life, except that his mother, Mary, had become insane after suffering from depression, and after a nervous breakdown was confined to Worcester County and City lunatic asylum in May 1860, where she remained until her death at the relatively young age of 33, on 30 March 1864.
William's father, Henry, was a hardworking fishmonger

It was his sisters' marriage by the looks of it.......although the certificate did not mention that her father Henry was deceased

Pat...................................

[Paddy]

Birmingham, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 forMary Jane Bury

MaryJane Bury aged 24 Of Camden Street (Birmingham?) married Rueben Barnes, aged 20, a Jeweller, at St Pauls Birmingham on August 23rd 1880.
Her father was Henry Bury a Fishmonger.
Witnesses Joseph Henlay and Charlotte Barnes.


Pat............................................... ....

[John Wheat]

To Miss Marple

Thanks for the reply. The Mary Jane Bury who got married in Birmingham in 1880 could be the same Mary Jane Bury as WH Bury's sister.

Cheers John

[John Wheat]

Having both worked in brothel and married a prostitute, he doesn't show signs of being 'down on whores', so what would his motive for killing be? The apparent cause of his wife's murder was disputes over money.

To Penhalion

We don't know what Bury felt about prostitutes. Judging from the abuse to Ellen Bury possibly not a great deal. We also don't know why Bury murdered Ellen.

Cheers John

[miss marple]

There was a Mary Jane Bury who got married in Birmingham in 1880 sept 6d 150. Might be worth looking at.

Miss Marple

[Penhalion]

Interesting idea. I have a few questions about it though. Mary Jane Bury disappears from record (apparently) in 1871 but MJK doesn't appear in record until a couple of years before her murder. So what was she doing for the 10-12 years that are missing? If she had been out of the public records, does that mean she was also out of contact with Bury during that time? If so, then the last significant contact she had with him would have been when he was a child so what could she possibly know about him that would make her a danger to him? Having both worked in brothel and married a prostitute, he doesn't show signs of being 'down on whores', so what would his motive for killing be? The apparent cause of his wife's murder was disputes over money.