Limerick, the Key?

[lynn cates]

informant

Hello Jon. Cute.

Seriously, some who informed to the RIC or police did not fare too well.

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

Well, maybe we can boil it down by phenotype. We know she was blonde with blue eyes. Or at least, I highly doubt her description could have gotten so confused over the intervening years.

Now in Ireland, as with most places, that is pretty rare. Specifically in Ireland, about 5% of the population. Now Limerick statistically leans towards golden brown or dark brown hair. The lightest hair comes from the Central Plains, and the Highest population of blondes and redheads are from Ulster. On the other hand, The Irish have a ridiculously high incidence of blue eyes. Like, half the population. So no help there. But while blonde is not exactly recessive, there is an extremely high correlation between blonde children and blonde parents, and two black haired parents cannot have a blonde child without one of a few recessive traits. It's also highly improbable for a blonde child to have a dark haired sibling, though it does occasionally happen.

The Welsh are like the English, in that they were Britons. So they have the same population statistics as England, with about 2% of the population being blonde, and a much smaller percentage of blue eyed people. There certainly is no region more or less populated with blondes. In this, Ireland has a higher percentage because it's an island and the phenotype was purer for longer.

So statistically, if she came from within the British Isles, she was Irish. Her family was predominantly from Ulster or the Central Plains (or both, as thousands of Catholics were expelled from Ulster in the late 18th century), and since she claimed Limerick, it's likely her family came from somewhere along the River Shannon in that region. So presumably she would have family in County Roscommon, Longford, and/or Westmeath. She would be Catholic, and would have been confirmed in the Catholic Church. Since Wales is a close second to Ireland in terms of Catholic Communities, assuming she did move to Wales as a small child, it would be there. So I would check church registries in either Caernarfonshire or more likely Carmarthenshire. Supposedly her father worked at an ironworks, and that requires a river or body of water, so towns near there. The site says she was about 25 at the time of her death, making her birth at around 1863, But I would do a +/- 5 years on that. Women tend to lie and make themselves younger, but poverty tends to prematurely age, so it could go either way. There may be no birth records from Ireland, but churches always record the mitzvahs, to mix my religious metaphors.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Actually, the RIC were instrumental in tenant evictions in Ireland. More than one had been killed in the "skirmishing" around the no rent stance, the Land League, etc.

Perhaps someone at the Met wondered whether "Kelly" were collateral damage in that?

Cheers.
LC

I didn't think she owed THAT much rent Lynn..

[lynn cates]

collateral damage

Hello Jon. Actually, the RIC were instrumental in tenant evictions in Ireland. More than one had been killed in the "skirmishing" around the no rent stance, the Land League, etc.

Perhaps someone at the Met wondered whether "Kelly" were collateral damage in that?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

The passage identifies "members of the RIC", rather than Police Officials but it does say they were "assisting the Metropolitan Police with their investigations", so I wondered in what capacity. Not that we would know but I though I'd ask just incase someone had read something somewhere.

Thankyou Debs/Lynn.

[lynn cates]

rubbernecking

Hello Debs. If I recall properly, that was Gareth's opinion as well. Something like rubbernecking?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Perhaps they were just being nosey.
The opportunity came up to view a Ripper victim and they took it?

[lynn cates]

home people

Hello Jon. Perhaps they were from her purported county and knew her?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Thankyou Debs, thankyou Lynn, yes possibly RIC officials, and their interest might be?

Thanks, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

sorry

Hello Debs. Oops, should have read your post #58 before responding to Jon's post #57.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Parnell Commission

Hello Jon.

"Did the RIC have offices in London?
One report has two members of the RIC show up at Millers Court with the Met. Police. How did they get there so quick, and what could they have been there to do?'

Permit me to suggest that they were there to testify before the Parnell Commission. They began meeting around 22 October.

Do you have John MacDonald's "Diary of the Parnell Commission"? (Debs tells me that there is an online version, but I have the paperback.) In it he tells about some of the RIC in London to testify before the commission.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Debra

In your wonderful research have you ever found anybody born in Ireland with French
first names, like Marie instead of Mary? And were there very many Janes born in Ireland.

I always imagined Marie Jeanette was a prostitute trade name, a bit of Oo La La as the Brits say though this is actually pronounced Oh La La in France

Hi Stephen.
There were 89972 women named Jane and 1200 women named Marie in the 1901 Irish census and just 48 named Jeanette. Jeanette was quite common in Scotland though.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

I thought I just did!

Dave

Hi Dave.
There were a few Welsh born Scots Guards. Still looking through them.

[Debra A]

Not to completely loose sight of the thread, we do read that the Royal Irish Constabulary made enquiries around Limerick to trace MJK's family.

Did the RIC have offices in London?
One report has two members of the RIC show up at Millers Court with the Met. Police. How did they get there so quick, and what could they have been there to do?

According to history, the RIC were the rural police in Ireland so the responsibility would fall on them to make enquiries around Limerick. However, history also tells us that the RIC received less than helpful cooperation around the country.
The rural populace did not trust the RIC because it was they who had been given the task of enforcing eviction orders across Ireland in the mid 19th century.

So maybe their search for MJK's family was significantly hampered by poor relations with the people.
But once again, why would two of their officers turn up at Millers Court?

Regards, Jon S.

Perhaps they were already in London for the Parnell Inquiry proceedings and were invited to Miller's Court?

[Wickerman]

Not to completely loose sight of the thread, we do read that the Royal Irish Constabulary made enquiries around Limerick to trace MJK's family.

Did the RIC have offices in London?
One report has two members of the RIC show up at Millers Court with the Met. Police. How did they get there so quick, and what could they have been there to do?

According to history, the RIC were the rural police in Ireland so the responsibility would fall on them to make enquiries around Limerick. However, history also tells us that the RIC received less than helpful cooperation around the country.
The rural populace did not trust the RIC because it was they who had been given the task of enforcing eviction orders across Ireland in the mid 19th century.

So maybe their search for MJK's family was significantly hampered by poor relations with the people.
But once again, why would two of their officers turn up at Millers Court?

Regards, Jon S.