Limerick, the Key?

[Wickerman]

Well, you know what they say, love is blind...

[Cogidubnus]

Ultimate misfortune!

No Jon...the reality is that your wife subsequently met you!



Dave

[Wickerman]

The reality is, my motherinlaw returned to the family home in Co. Clare (IRE) to give birth to my wife. Then returned to Manchester. As a result the missus claims to be Irish but with a Lancastrian accent.

Thats a dash of reality...

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

She might even recite poetry in Irish Gaellic with a slight Welsh accent...Let's be real eh and try to stay within realistic bounds...

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

As far as constructing a new identity is concerned, you are on to something. Clearly the easiest thing to do is to keep your first name and change your surname. That way at least you don't have to train yourself to respond to some other name. But for a Catholic girl, taking the name "Mary" would not be nearly as hard to adjust to as say, "Beatrice". But you British folks have a truly astounding number of individual accents and dialects crammed in to such a tiny island. A Limerick accent may not be as distinctive as say, Glaswegian, but it would be known to any Irish. Passing herself off as being from Limerick when she was not is likely akin to trying to pass yourself off as being from South Carolina when you are from Oregon, or as being from London when you are from Yorkshire.

Thats a fair observation. Alternately, MJK might not have been raised in Limerick (city or county?) but she could have been born there. As such she may claim to be from Limerick but speak with an accent from some other part of Ireland.

We can search under;
First name: Mary.
Born: 1863 (+/- 2 yrs).
Location: Ireland.
Residing in 1881: Wales
And we get 123 potenial MJK's, all the right age & right nationality who may have changed their surname to Kelly in later times.

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

I just threw it out there as a suggestion Dave

It's fine mate...no need of an excuse!

Best wishes always

Dave

[Cogidubnus]

As you say Errata, to original cockney ears a harsh Belfast (Northern Irish) accent might just be distinguishable from a more rounded Southern accent...but no way could the average native Eastender distinguish between Limerick and Cork...However, an Irish person probably could...

Trouble is, the East End (Whitechapel and Wapping in particular) was literally packed solid with Irish people at the time (as well as Jewish refugees)...and in all honesty they'd have detected a fraud as soon as she opened her mouth!

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon

Sorry mate but I thought it was you cautioning me about straying from the evidence without good reason?

Touché!

But, never mind...you may well be correct!...let's see where the research leads us...

All the best

Dave

I just threw it out there as a suggestion Dave. Afterall Barnett did say he never met any of her brothers, so this "visit" is a story Barnett was told by someone and the "visit" happened before he made her aquaintance.

All the best, Jon S.

[Errata]

As far as constructing a new identity is concerned, you are on to something. Clearly the easiest thing to do is to keep your first name and change your surname. That way at least you don't have to train yourself to respond to some other name. But for a Catholic girl, taking the name "Mary" would not be nearly as hard to adjust to as say, "Beatrice". But you British folks have a truly astounding number of individual accents and dialects crammed in to such a tiny island. A Limerick accent may not be as distinctive as say, Glaswegian, but it would be known to any Irish. Passing herself off as being from Limerick when she was not is likely akin to trying to pass yourself off as being from South Carolina when you are from Oregon, or as being from London when you are from Yorkshire.

But like any other accent or dialect, there is some wiggle room, typically within certain geographical features. There isn't a lot to distinguish between Southern accents in the US, unless you pay attention to such things, but there is a noticeable difference in say, a Tennessee accent when you cross a major river, or get into some mountains, or any other natural barrier. The "hill country accent" as made popular by The Beverly Hillbillies is East Tennessee, Western Carolinas, West Virgina, places where Scots-Irish settled to mine and became very isolated. So sounding like she was from Limerick would probably put her within an hour of Limerick up or down the river, but likely not more inland.

[Cogidubnus]

Mild irony

Hi Jon

Sorry mate but I thought it was you cautioning me about straying from the evidence without good reason?

Touché!

But, never mind...you may well be correct!...let's see where the research leads us...

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

I may be wrong, but is there any evidence it's an older brother in the army? Might it not be a younger brother? And if so, shouldn't we also be looking in the regimental records for men born in Carmarthen/Caernavon/Cwmavon?

Hi Dave.
We are also trusting in Barnett's recollections, he may have misremembered the relationship. If Mary did go to Cardiff and stay with her aunt, perhaps this soldier was not a brother, but a cousin?

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

I thought I just did!

Dave

[Debra A]

We can just as easily look for men born in Wales,Dave.
All anyone has to do is speak up with their idea.

[Cogidubnus]

In hindsight

We're assuming on this thread that Limerick may be the key...and as far as Mary Kelly's concerned that may well yet prove to be the case...but then we've gone off on a chase pursuing Mary Kelly's brother via a Limerick birthplace...

I may be wrong, but is there any evidence it's an older brother in the army? Might it not be a younger brother? And if so, shouldn't we also be looking in the regimental records for men born in Carmarthen/Caernavon/Cwmavon?

Admittedly there are several Welsh regiments (notably the 24th of Foot, only the South Wales Borderers from 1881 - not as "Zulu" would have it) but the Welsh Guards weren't actually formed until 1915, (and incidentally the Irish Guards 1900), so anybody going for a prestigious regiment might well have chosen the Grenadiers, Coldstreams or Scots Guards...

Just a thought

Dave

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Debra

In your wonderful research have you ever found anybody born in Ireland with French
first names, like Marie instead of Mary? And were there very many Janes born in Ireland.

I always imagined Marie Jeanette was a prostitute trade name, a bit of Oo La La as the Brits say though this is actually pronounced Oh La La in France