Limerick, the Key?

[Errata]

What if she was French? Or half... say her mother. It might explain some things.

[lynn cates]

give and take

Hello Debs. That's true enough. But imagine what it's like when NONE of them agree with you, given your take.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"if you type "six brothers living" into the Press Reports Search window you'll see a few different versions of that."

Absolutely. But, as I said, if you like newspaper stories . . .

Cheers.
LC

People only ever like newspaper stories that agree with their take on things, though, Lynn.

[Stephen Thomas]

I presume that their junket was "on the house"? Just had a colleague return from a week in England, including a couple days at Oxford. His remark, "It's amazing how comfortable one can make oneself on other people's money."

Hi Lynn

Yes, I remember a quick Q&A article with Mel Brooks in a London newspaper and when asked what his favourite food was he said 'If you're paying I like sirloin steak with Chateaux Lafitte 1953. If I'm paying I like cabbage and potatoes'.

Hi Debra

Thanks for your studied reply to my question earlier.

[Bridewell]

Manchester

Just on the off-chance that the story did originate in Manchester, I've had a look for Kelly families in that area in the 1871 census. Living at 15, Back Lane, Blackley is a John Kelly, married to Elizabeth. The children are Mary (7), Hannah (5) & Henry (1 month). John was born in Manchester & the children in Blackley. Elizabeth (& her mother, Elizabeth McCann, who was living with them) were born in Dublin. I guess a child raised by two Irish women might pick up an Irish accent to a degree. This will of course be demolished when they're all alive and well in 1891. Watch this space!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Yes, I'd have thought so too.
So, either she was named 'Marie Jeanette Kelly' as she told Barnett, or, Wilton had no notion that the family had been traced and the two stories are separate stories just linked in the press?

[The Good Michael]

Mike, I always thought it had been Wilton's choice for the coffin inscription, based on what Barnett had said about Marie Jeanette being her real name, and seeing as he was paying? It sounds to me as if the funeral, coffin, inscriptions etc. were all arranged before the mention of the family being expected.

Debs,

I thought so too before you posted this clipping. If someone was in touch with the family, it's possible they had the chance to approve or disapprove of the inscription. I mean, even a guy footing the bill would have asked, I think.

Mike

[Debra A]

Debs,

It is interesting that the clipping talks of relatives coming and the inscription with Jeanette as the middle name. It seems as if, by the article, that the family would have known about the inscription then... if the article is accurate.

Mike

Mike, I always thought it had been Wilton's choice for the coffin inscription, based on what Barnett had said about Marie Jeanette being her real name, and seeing as he was paying? It sounds to me as if the funeral, coffin, inscriptions etc. were all arranged before the mention of the family being expected.

[The Good Michael]

Debs,

It is interesting that the clipping talks of relatives coming and the inscription with Jeanette as the middle name. It seems as if, by the article, that the family would have known about the inscription then... if the article is accurate.

Mike

[Debra A]

The story appeared in the London papers the day before on the 14th. Here's two examples from the Morning Post and the Standard:

[Debra A]

The implication is that the story broke first in the northern counties (where it's reported) because that's the direction by which Kelly's family or friends made their way to London. For some reason the London press may have been been given orders (by police?) to sequester information on the family or friends arrival by the time they reached in London --apparently after her inquest had ended. Thus, the family could cooperate with the police without interference from the London press.

But the story also appears in two Irish papers, Gloucester (South West England), Scotland and London as well as Manchester and all on the same date of the 15th of November. They all say the funeral may be postponed until Monday because of this.
The day after, the 16th, the papers report that the funeral will definitely be Monday and that the family are not expected to attend.

[lynn cates]

. . .what I read in the papers . . .

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"if you type "six brothers living" into the Press Reports Search window you'll see a few different versions of that."

Absolutely. But, as I said, if you like newspaper stories . . .

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Scott.
I take it that it would require someone to be expecting the family in London, therefore it was in London where it was first realized that they had not appeared. Hence, the story broke in London.
We cannot trust that the Family was coming from Ireland, they could have been travelling from Wales, so nothing to do with the northern counties.

Regards, Jon S.

[Scott Nelson]

The implication is that the story broke first in the northern counties (where it's reported) because that's the direction by which Kelly's family or friends made their way to London. For some reason the London press may have been been given orders (by police?) to sequester information on the family or friends arrival by the time they reached in London --apparently after her inquest had ended. Thus, the family could cooperate with the police without interference from the London press.

[Wickerman]

Hello Dave. I'll copy and paste the snippet below.

Cheers.
LC

"She said she had one sister, who was respectable, who travelled from market place to market place. This sister was very fond of her. There were six brothers living in London, and one was in the army. One of them was named Henry. I never saw the brothers to my knowledge."

Hi Lynn.
If you type "six brothers living" into the Press Reports Search window you'll see a few different versions of that.

The story appears in the London Standard of the same date and has been discussed before, although the friends are not mentioned in that version. The Standard goes on to say the funeral was postponed again because of the family not arriving.

Thankyou, so is it fair to assume the authorities did locate her family?

If we do allow for that possibility, then maybe we should stick with Mary/Marie Jane/Jeanette Kelly" as her genuine name as that must have been what the police used in their search, yes?

Very good, thanks, Jon S.