"Murder...!" cry

[Wickerman]

Could Astrakhan man's small parcel have contained a portion of cod and chips?

If he had been carrying a newspaper parcel, maybe

[Wickerman]

....True, but assuming the ~4AM cry of "Murder" was indeed hers, we can propose that she had been out and about at around 2AM, at which time she probably ate her last meal.

This is consistent with another press report that surfaced on the 13th. That the police returned to Millers Court to speak to the inhabitants. Several other witnesses did claim to see Kelly out after 2:00 am.
It is probably fair to say this return visit was prompted by Hutchinson's story received by the police the evening before.

[Joshua Rogan]

If he had been carrying a newspaper parcel, maybe

Wasn't it described as oiled leather, or similar? I think I might mistake greasy newspaper for that, but perhaps someone of Hutch's observational skills wouldn't have. I'd probably have noticed the aroma, though.

[Robert]

"You will be all right for what I have told you. I have a Jumbo saveloy."

[Wickerman]

Wasn't it described as oiled leather, or similar? I think I might mistake greasy newspaper for that, but perhaps someone of Hutch's observational skills wouldn't have. I'd probably have noticed the aroma, though.

What is being described is oilcloth, it was a substitute for leather.
Basically it is cotton soaked in oil, we still wear it today as waterproof clothing. It was popular as motorcycle clothing back in the 50's/60's.

[Sam Flynn]

Narrowing down Kelly's time of death was of huge importance for the police to pursue the correct suspect.

Absolutely, it's just that any evidence for the police acting on the potential clue of the "partly-digested fish" seems not to have survived.

[Varqm]

No witness at Miller's court said he/she was expecting a guest/friend/relative at that early morning hour,so what was that lurking man doing?
He was returning to Kelly's room,either with appointment with Kelly or not,cautious and up to no good.
Or an innocent bystander,perhaps homeless,and something caught his eye in the court and Lewis's "he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one" was a misinterpretation or perhaps he was a potential client looking if Kelly was available.This view is suggested by the theories that the killer was a client inside the room,perhaps brought by Kelly,and the around 10 AM murder time
(Caroline Maxwell).
I believe in the former.

[Varqm]

We do not know how partially digested the food was and how much.Reading about it could take 2-4-6 hours to empty the stomach before death.So Kelly could have ate at around 11:00 PM or 1 or 2 AM if murder time was 3-4 AM.
Ex.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/lucknow/ias-officer-murder-undigested-food-in-body-points-at-death-around-2am/articleshow/58814666.cms

[Wickerman]

We do not know how partially digested the food was and how much.Reading about it could take 2-4-6 hours to empty the stomach before death.So Kelly could have ate at around 11:00 PM or 1 or 2 AM if murder time was 3-4 AM.
Ex.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/58814666.cms

Which demonstrates that any capable physician will need a 'time of consumption' from the police in order to offer an estimated time of death.
The fact he was able to provide the latter means he must have been given the former. Whether the time he was given was correct or not is another debate. (My view is that the time he was given was incorrect).

The alternative is to risk professional criticism from his peers for his attempt to offer a conclusion for which he did not possess the necessary input.

[Sam Flynn]

We do not know how partially digested the food was and how much.Reading about it could take 2-4-6 hours to empty the stomach before death.

We're not talking about the emptying of the stomach, but the partially-digested state of the food that was still in the stomach. The gastric juices do a pretty efficient job on breaking down fish, so the fact that only some of the meat had been broken down suggests that it had not been eaten all that long before the stomach stopped being able to process the food further.

[GUT]

What is being described is oilcloth, it was a substitute for leather.
Basically it is cotton soaked in oil, we still wear it today as waterproof clothing. It was popular as motorcycle clothing back in the 50's/60's.

And popular today with those 'on the land".

[Wickerman]

And popular today with those 'on the land".

True, I wear the Outback western design hat regularly, but I don't work on the land.
The Drover coat, made of the same material - oilskin, is just too heavy for my job to wear it every day, unless it is really raining hard.

[Michael W Richards]

True enough, but the important question is less one of where she went, but when she ate. To put it in a quasi-equation form:

Time of Eating = (Time of "Murder!" cry) - (Approx time for fish to appear partially-digested in stomach)

Well Sam, I feel that if we knew she didnt leave her room after 11:45 then we would only have 2 time periods to worry about for the eating question...one, when heading to, or arriving, home,... or when she is woken by someone at her window or door at approx 3:45. If she is killed shortly after that time, then a meal ingested around 12-1am would still be partially digested.

Im very content with my own assessment of Mary Kelly whereabouts after midnight, (its not a requirement that others also agree with it), but I do believe that if people were to create a storyline based upon what is seen and heard by only the witnesses who we can state unequivocally knew Mary Kelly...which are Julia, Maria, Mary Ann and Elizabeth, then this murder can potentially be solved. Because in my suggested scenario Mary is certainly killed by someone she knew very well. And we have a place to start looking....at who the other Joe might have been.

Some have suggested Fleming...that doesnt quite ring true for me, I can believe he wanted to marry Mary as is stated by a witness, and the Joe she is seeing while seeing Barnett doesnt always treat her well. Im assuming physically.

For me the most intriguing part of the history that is given for Mary Kelly is her life as somewhat of a courtesan or paid escort for someone who took her to France. A trip which might have been luxurious compared with her brothel life but yet one she chose to end abruptly after just a fortnight. Was she being "treated ill" in France? Was she afraid for her safety? Was she in the company of well heeled Fenians? Did she meet Joe #2 there?

[Michael W Richards]

I thought I was the only one who does not automatically accept they are defensive wounds.
If the mutilations were organized, methodical even clinical, it could be argued that haphazard slashes on her arms are defensive wounds. But all the mutilations are disorganized, there's no method, it's just a hack and slash all over her body, so there's less cause to view those wounds as defensive, in my opinion.




I don't recall the sheets being cut?
Saturated with blood yes, but no mention of cuts through the sheet.

If she was face down, with the killer on her back, he pulls her head up by the hair and slashed around her throat.



That would cause the saturation of the sheet beneath her, but there is no cuts in that sheet that I know of.
Do you remember where you read that?

If she is face down and he is on her back...A) how did he get there without waking her, and B), how does her jugular spray only 90% sideways onto the partition wall? Why no spray over the head of the bed?

Rhetorical question that B, the blood is found where it is because she was facing the wall it was found on when her throat is cut. She is then rolled back onto her back after the struggle subsides....leaving her in the approximate place she flopped back into when she is found. I would imagine that left arm may have dangled off the bed and over the floor, maybe it was left in that position before being placed back over her empty midsection. Which would make my theory that he was left handed workable, and make this murder unlike the previous ones that were almost certainly committed by someone right handed.

[DJA]

And popular today with those 'on the land".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driza-Bone

Had mine for decades.