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Originally posted by Michael W Richards
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From our witness folder here;
"Mary Kelly was apparently very drunk and could barely answer, but managed to say goodnight in return. Shortly afterwards, she was heard singing in her room. Cox went out shortly after midnight and returned about 1.00am by which time Kelly was still singing. Cox went out again just after 1.00am and returned at 3.00am and by this time all was quiet in the court and there was no light on in No.13. She stated that after that, she heard no noise for the rest of the night"
From the witness;
"Mary Ann Cox stated: I live at No. 5 Room, Miller's-court. It is the last house on the left-hand side of the court. I am a widow, and get my living on the streets. I have known the deceased for eight or nine months as the occupant of No. 13 Room. She was called Mary Jane. I last saw her alive on Thursday night, at a quarter to twelve, very much intoxicated. [Coroner] Where was this ? - In Dorset-street. She went up the court, a few steps in front of me.
[Coroner] Was anybody with her ? - A short, stout man, shabbily dressed. He had on a longish coat, very shabby, and carried a pot of ale in his hand.
[Coroner] What was the colour of the coat ? - A dark coat.
[Coroner] What hat had he ? - A round hard billycock.
[Coroner] Long or short hair ? - I did not notice. He had a blotchy face, and full carrotty moustache.
[Coroner] The chin was shaven ? - Yes. A lamp faced the door.
[Coroner] Did you see them go into her room ? - Yes; I said "Good night, Mary," and she turned round and banged the door.
[Coroner] Had he anything in his hands but the can ? - No.
[Coroner] Did she say anything ? - She said "Good night, I am going to have a song." As I went in she sang "A violet I plucked from my mother's grave when a boy." I remained a quarter of an hour in my room and went out. Deceased was still singing at one o'clock when I returned. I remained in the room for a minute to warm my hands as it was raining, and went out again. She was singing still, and I returned to my room at three o'clock. The light was then out and there was no noise."
Absolutely consistent with what I said earlier. The knock on the door, or window for that matter is deduced from the fact that the cat awoke Elizabeth just prior to the cry out, indicating some form of audible disturbance. Ive suggested many times here that the cry out and Mary Kelly being the one to have made it make perfect sense, in the context of someone being woken in the middle of the night with what is very probably a sore head.
Ill defer to Cox and her recollections rather than some other witnesses who claim to have seen Mary Kelly alive after 11:45pm Thursday evening, because of her established relationship with Kelly and the fact she passes that room several times. As for what Kelly had for making a fire, well we know there was one in that hearth at some recent point, and we know that remnants of clothing were found in it.
The issue isn't whether this makes perfect sense or not however, in this forum its whether or not people will use logical extrapolations of data to carry a storyline to its conclusion. Someone cried out at nearly 4am, only 2 witnesses can be proven to have known Mary if only for their proximity to her for some time, and the medical suggestion regarding time of death is in the middle of the night, not 10am. That plus Diddles creates a plausible scenario...including the fact that she was in a love triangle of sorts at that point in time, and she had the room to herself for only a few days. The opportunity for lover B, or anyone for that matter, to pop by to see her is clear.
Its almost certain that the killer gained access to the room by invitation, not forced entry or some catlike stealth.
"Mary Kelly was apparently very drunk and could barely answer, but managed to say goodnight in return. Shortly afterwards, she was heard singing in her room. Cox went out shortly after midnight and returned about 1.00am by which time Kelly was still singing. Cox went out again just after 1.00am and returned at 3.00am and by this time all was quiet in the court and there was no light on in No.13. She stated that after that, she heard no noise for the rest of the night"
From the witness;
"Mary Ann Cox stated: I live at No. 5 Room, Miller's-court. It is the last house on the left-hand side of the court. I am a widow, and get my living on the streets. I have known the deceased for eight or nine months as the occupant of No. 13 Room. She was called Mary Jane. I last saw her alive on Thursday night, at a quarter to twelve, very much intoxicated. [Coroner] Where was this ? - In Dorset-street. She went up the court, a few steps in front of me.
[Coroner] Was anybody with her ? - A short, stout man, shabbily dressed. He had on a longish coat, very shabby, and carried a pot of ale in his hand.
[Coroner] What was the colour of the coat ? - A dark coat.
[Coroner] What hat had he ? - A round hard billycock.
[Coroner] Long or short hair ? - I did not notice. He had a blotchy face, and full carrotty moustache.
[Coroner] The chin was shaven ? - Yes. A lamp faced the door.
[Coroner] Did you see them go into her room ? - Yes; I said "Good night, Mary," and she turned round and banged the door.
[Coroner] Had he anything in his hands but the can ? - No.
[Coroner] Did she say anything ? - She said "Good night, I am going to have a song." As I went in she sang "A violet I plucked from my mother's grave when a boy." I remained a quarter of an hour in my room and went out. Deceased was still singing at one o'clock when I returned. I remained in the room for a minute to warm my hands as it was raining, and went out again. She was singing still, and I returned to my room at three o'clock. The light was then out and there was no noise."
Absolutely consistent with what I said earlier. The knock on the door, or window for that matter is deduced from the fact that the cat awoke Elizabeth just prior to the cry out, indicating some form of audible disturbance. Ive suggested many times here that the cry out and Mary Kelly being the one to have made it make perfect sense, in the context of someone being woken in the middle of the night with what is very probably a sore head.
Ill defer to Cox and her recollections rather than some other witnesses who claim to have seen Mary Kelly alive after 11:45pm Thursday evening, because of her established relationship with Kelly and the fact she passes that room several times. As for what Kelly had for making a fire, well we know there was one in that hearth at some recent point, and we know that remnants of clothing were found in it.
The issue isn't whether this makes perfect sense or not however, in this forum its whether or not people will use logical extrapolations of data to carry a storyline to its conclusion. Someone cried out at nearly 4am, only 2 witnesses can be proven to have known Mary if only for their proximity to her for some time, and the medical suggestion regarding time of death is in the middle of the night, not 10am. That plus Diddles creates a plausible scenario...including the fact that she was in a love triangle of sorts at that point in time, and she had the room to herself for only a few days. The opportunity for lover B, or anyone for that matter, to pop by to see her is clear.
Its almost certain that the killer gained access to the room by invitation, not forced entry or some catlike stealth.
if not him, than more than likely the killer gained access through the window trick. mary Kelly being asleep/passed out when attacked points in this direction.
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