Was Johnny Gill a Ripper Victim

[Sam Flynn]

For those that were wondering, the data pattern I saw is below (and its so simple I'm sure others have noticed it before):

The murders of the canonical five were all at weekends but followed the pattern
Friday, Saturday, Sunday (double event), Friday

In addition the time between each murder was
1 week, 3 weeks (double event), 5 weeks then followed by the next day in the above day sequence.

So I looked at 7 weeks and the next day in the sequence and that was the date Johnny Gill's body was found (I can't yet find an actual time of death).

A week is a pretty blunt instrument, with a lot of margin for error. If we choose days as a unit of measurement then, apart from a general increase in the gap between murders, there's no discernible pattern.

Nichols to Chapman: 7 days
Chapman to Double: 23 days
Double to Mary Kelly: 40 days
Kelly to Johnny Gill: 48 days (taking 27th Dec as the date of his disappearance)

Edit: Dividing the days by 7, the pattern is less clear-cut than 1, 3, 5, 7 weeks. It's 1, 3, 6, 7 "weeks", when rounded to the nearest integer (1.0, 3.3, 5.7, 6.9 to one decimal place).

[Joshua Rogan]

Not in my mind. Unless somebody can connect Turner with Whitechapel.

was he any relation to Martha Turner?

[jerryd]

But was Johnny Gill a Ripper victim?

Hi Scott.

Not in my mind. Unless somebody can connect Turner with Whitechapel.

[Scott Nelson]

I am 99% convinced Johnny Gill was murdered by Walter Lewis Turner.

But was Johnny Gill a Ripper victim?

[Errata]

Hi John G. I have read the first few pages, but because it is fictionalised I gave up on it. Maybe when you have read it you can advise if I was premature to give up so easily.

I was really angry at History for about a year after I realized that historical fiction was not history. Completely boycotted the subject. Probably why my American history is so rusty.

[etenguy]

Apologies if this is off topic. I've recently downloaded Who Killed Little Johnny Gill, by Kathryn McMaster. Got loads to read, so not sure when I'll get round to it. Has anybody read this book? Can you recommend it?

Hi John G. I have read the first few pages, but because it is fictionalised I gave up on it. Maybe when you have read it you can advise if I was premature to give up so easily.

[John G]

Apologies if this is off topic. I've recently downloaded Who Killed Little Johnny Gill, by Kathryn McMaster. Got loads to read, so not sure when I'll get round to it. Has anybody read this book? Can you recommend it?

[jerryd]

brilliant stuff as usual Jerry! Did wildbore or any other folks you've looked into have ties to this saw mill?

Abby,

Sorry for the late response. I guess I overlooked your post.

As far as I'm aware, Wildbore didn't have ties to J.T. Chappell. Chappell's businesses are interesting though, as he owned barges (as can be seen from the picture I posted) that traveled the river probably delivering or picking up lumber and brick. He owned a brick manufacturing yard (London and County Brick Co.) down river. In fact, 16 miles east of Rainham in Benfleet.

[Abby Normal]

A name Im unfamiliar with jerry. A quick Google gave me details on his murder conviction and his execution date for the murder of that 6 year old girl, I found it interesting that he claimed he never killed her but had a quarryman chum named "Jack" ask him to dispose of the trunk. The Jack? Just kiddin.

yup either him or the milkman. not the torso/ripper

[Michael W Richards]

I agree Michael. I am 99% convinced Johnny Gill was murdered by Walter Lewis Turner.

A name Im unfamiliar with jerry. A quick Google gave me details on his murder conviction and his execution date for the murder of that 6 year old girl, I found it interesting that he claimed he never killed her but had a quarryman chum named "Jack" ask him to dispose of the trunk. The Jack? Just kiddin.

[Abby Normal]

Sorry to be a bit off topic regarding Johnny Gill. But, since sawing and the torsos was mentioned I thought I would post this. The picture below is of John Chappel's saw mill located in Pimlico on the River Thames. The Whitehall torso "arm" was found on the bank of the river near this mill. I remember Debs noticing from this piece [posted by me on JTRforums years back] that Chappel also made sash windows. Sash cord was used to tie up some of the torso parts. I would think these timber mills would also ship the cut up boards to new construction sites, such as the New Scotland Yard site.

Regarding portable saws. The Whitehall torso was found in a construction site full of carpenter's. They kept their tools locked up on the site. Hand saws are used by carpenters.

brilliant stuff as usual Jerry! Did wildbore or any other folks you've looked into have ties to this saw mill?

[jerryd]

I think one thing that we can say about this murder is that its highly unlikely that the man who made Torsos in London committed this crime. The boy was terribly mutilated, but left with all his parts in that barrel.

I agree Michael. I am 99% convinced Johnny Gill was murdered by Walter Lewis Turner.

[Michael W Richards]

I think one thing that we can say about this murder is that its highly unlikely that the man who made Torsos in London committed this crime. The boy was terribly mutilated, but left with all his parts in that barrel.

[Errata]

he had a this:



not necessarily the correct era, but I've seen the Victorian models. Like a cross between a Inquisitional rack and a dental tool of the damned. Fun toy though.

[Errata]

I was thinking treadle saws, which were a thing. Like a pedal powered scroll saw. Not portable I wouldn’t think,I would think. Especially if he didn’t have a horse and wagon. But private as opposed to industrial.

my grandfather had a treadle saw table from “the old country”. The stray Amish spring of the family tree. Just the table and wheels though. No saw. Still an impressively imposing table.