Who was Jack's first murder poll!

[curious4]

Hi Stan,

For Jack the Ripper Id say Mary Ann Nichols. For the Whitechapel Murderer, rather Murderers,... Id say Emma. I think the "gang" that killed Emma is indicative of some types that were prevalent in the area, and independently they probably account for most of the 13 or 14 murders that are often suggested as possible Ripper crimes.

Some nasty types in there 2....maybe a Butcher, a Baker, or a Torso maker.

Cheers

Hello Perry,

Two or three men - does that make a gang? Two definitely wouldn't.

C4

[mariab]

For the most part I agree with Miss Marple's list. (Miss Marple's list sounds like a book or movie title, by the way.) However:

The murder was 'silent; as were Jack's other murders, no one heard any commotion.

Not necessarily, as we don't know if the people at George's Yard didn't lie about the noise, particularly the superintendent and his wife.

Martha was on her back with her skirt pulled up, legs open and displayed.

The positions the bodies were found in might have been attained simply for commodity, since the perp extracted their organs.

That is the MO, his display of the victims, not the same as method, method can change. There were no other display murders in East London.

In my interpretation the action this perp was most interested in was the disembowelment/ postmortem exploration. There were not many cases of disembowelment in Victorian Whitechapel either, apart from the possible hints for disembowelment on one of the torso murders, if I'm not mistaken?

[miss marple]

Always gone with Martha as being first proper victim. Milwood may have been an early go, don't suppose he got it right first time,
There were very few Murders in Whitechapel and in spite of the 39 stab wounds and lack of throat cutting, there is more in common with Jack's MO than against. Their is a lack of control in the method [ think he realised throat cutting was more effective afterward and used a more suitable knife for throat cutting.
The murder took place just after a weekend on a bank holiday night.
The murder took place within the location of Jack's activity.
The murder took place 13 days before the murder of Polly Nichols.
The victim was typical of Jack's victims.
The murder was 'silent; as were Jack's other murders, no one heard any commotion.
Martha was on her back with her skirt pulled up, legs open and displayed.
That is the MO, his display of the victims, not the same as method, method can change.
There were no other display murders in East London.

I think Mckensie may have been a victim

Miss Marple

[sdreid]

Ah, so I guess about 25 years now then.

[mariab]

Does anyone know in which Ripper book Millwood was first mentioned as a potential JtR victim?

Yep, Fido. The same about Ada Wilson.

[sdreid]

Thanks Tom. Yes, several surprises.

[Tom_Wescott]

I believe that would be Martin Fido's, Stan. And I'm shocked 9 people have picked her. Also surprising are the 6 who picked Emma Smith and the astounding 52 who picked Tabram (as compared to the 27 for Nichols).

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[sdreid]

Almost 1 out of 10 think it was Millwood; that's pretty surprising to me. Rumbelow's book, the definitive JtR work of the 1970s, doesn't even mention her.

Does anyone know in which Ripper book Millwood was first mentioned as a potential JtR victim?

[curious]

Hi Ben,

My thinking with this is at what point does the penny drop? i.e. the realisation that he could cut the throat and the blood will flow away from him?

See, I don't think this is the natural progression of self-teaching.

Someone like me, who has absolutely no knowledge of the body, simply wouldn't arrive at that conclusion after a couple of frenzied stabbing attacks. How would I know? How would it suddenly dawn on me? I simply wouldn't make that leap to cutting the throat and tilting the head; I'd just assume that blood splatter was an inevitable part of murder.

I think he must have known the most efficient method blood wise, and aware of it prior to when he started out, making Nichols the first.

then you must envision some background that would give him that knowledge?

Right?

What are you seeing?

[sdreid]

Or, any before her I don't think other than Rainham.

[sdreid]

Almost 1 out of 10 think it was Millwood; that's pretty surprising to me. Rumbelow's book, the definitive JtR work of the 1970s, doesn't even mention her.

[sdreid]

Sorry David - no I don't. If it's known, I'm confident that someone on here will know.

[DVV]

Stan, by any chance, do you know the name of the doc who discharged her as cured ?

[sdreid]

Yes, I think she should probably be considered a murder. I think a name shows up in italics to indicate what your vote was. It does not show that way to me.

[DVV]

Hi Stan, why is Annie Millwood written in italics ?
If I remember well, you think it was a murder rather than an attempted murder, don't you ? (and you're right...)