For what reason do we include Stride?

[Varqm]

Schwartz told 2 different stories and cannot be relied upon.

Following Baxter's summation,ignored by many, that Brown saw Stride last,the man he'd seen with Stride might/must have been a possible "suspect",the couple went after into Dutfields Yard.Or the man left and Stride met the killer.Either way it would still be like the C4,the killer seen by a witness standing close to the victim before their deaths,not a domestic/assault or something "vulgar".There was no BS man and Pipeman.

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[Harry D]

Schwartz was full of BS, man.

[Sam Flynn]

Two murders by knife with such a short space of time and distance.

In a densely populated, violent corner of London where many had access to knives, and at a time when other unfortunates were killed by someone (or ones) other than Jack.

Coincidences do happen....but we are far too late in proceedings to go chasing wild geese.

Or red herrings.

[Varqm]

Schwartz was full of BS, man.

- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.He could not speak English and, that we know of, he did not attempt to make money.Maybe he tried.

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[Jon Guy]

So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.

[Harry D]

- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.

Loyalty to his fellow jews/immigrants?

[Batman]

How Should Schwartz be totally lying if he was there?

Stride was attacked and murdered at Dutsfield yard to the best of our knowledge. She was there. She is murdered.

She was seen by a PC at Berner Street. 12:35am, 25 minutes before her body was found.

In order for Schwartz to be a total liar, he mustn't be there at all. Yet the police found no evidence to suggest he wasn't there at the time and for the reasons he gave.

So the liar claim can only be a partial-liar claim. That he was there but lied about what he had seen.

Let's face it, the idea that Schwartz lied has to be a CONSPIRACY THEORY. It would mean all the other witnesses are covering up what happened to Stride as well as Schwartz who was there.

[Harry D]

Stride was attacked and murdered at Dutsfield yard to the best of our knowledge. She was there. She is murdered.

She was seen by a PC at Berner Street. 12:35am, 25 minutes before her body was found.

In order for Schwartz to be a total liar, he mustn't be there at all. Yet the police found no evidence to suggest he wasn't there at the time and for the reasons he gave.

So the liar claim can only be a partial-liar claim. That he was there but lied about what he had seen.

Let's face it, the idea that Schwartz lied has to be a CONSPIRACY THEORY. It would mean all the other witnesses are covering up what happened to Stride as well as Schwartz who was there.

No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.

[Michael W Richards]

Two murders by knife with such a short space of time and distance.

Coincidences do happen....but we are far too late in proceedings to go chasing wild geese.

3 knife murders happened on that night, in that area. All 3 victims were women. Coincidental. The third suggests that, it was proven to be unconnected.

And the 2 murders we are talking about bear little if any similarity to each other.

[Michael W Richards]

- C4 excluding Nichols,post #211.

Yeah, why would Schwartz lie.He could not speak English and, that we know of, he did not attempt to make money.Maybe he tried.

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We know that the club made money by showing people the murder scene. And we suspect that Wess translated for him...who knows whether the translation was verbatim or tampered with? Wess it seems translated for Goldstein....the one witness verified as being seen by the gates nearest to the actual time of the murder. He didn't come forward until Tuesday night. Schwartz, on Sunday night.

Liz had an argument with Kidney the last time she saw him, which Kidney denied, that's much more reasonable fodder for theorizing about who murdered her, rather than a ripper who doesn't rip.

[Batman]

No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.

Schwartz claimed to be there at the time Stride was murdered (and was obviously there and murdered). Are you suggesting he was or wasn't there?

Also, how do you explain that Swanson basically said Pipeman wasn't considered a suspect?

[Abby Normal]

In a densely populated, violent corner of London where many had access to knives, and at a time when other unfortunates were killed by someone (or ones) other than Jack.Or red herrings.

Hi Sam
I think your missing the big picture.

As violent as WC was, murder was still rare.

and we have a suspect peaked cap man, seen by several witnesses with Stride and eddowes and also en route between Dutfield yard and Mitre Square with the anon Church st sighting, I think its fairly reasonable that the ripper was wearing a peaked cap that night and murdered both Stride and Eddowes.

[Abby Normal]

So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.

I do!!

[Abby Normal]

No one else witnessed the assault that Schwartz alleges took place, and the evidence would suggest that Stride was taken unawares by her killer.

James Brown saw a man appearing to proposition a woman, nothing more, and his description does not match Schwartz's.

Hi Harry
Seems like Brown didn't see stride-the man he described is not like the others.

[Varqm]

So, most of us agree that Schwartz probably saw Liz Stride being killed.

No.Baxter's summation,Brown was the last man.Post #187 193 211.
The 2 different versions by Schwartz made it clear he was unreliable.
Baxter rightly ignored him although his was the most crucial testimony,as
far as who was the perpetrator.


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