A Killer Other Than the B.S. Man?

[curious4]

Pub with no beer?

Hello John,

Not a hostelry. Not where people went for a drink. Strictly teetotal. Liz could have gone in on her own had she wanted to. Except that it was closed by that time. Liz would have known about the club and what it was about.


C4

[John G]

Hello C4,

Of course, Eagle was able to access the club via the side door. And there was singing and music emanating from the club. There is also little evidence that the yard was used for purposes of solicitation, so that might not explain Stride's presence in the yard.

However, I am intrigued by Tom's suggestion, I.e that Eagle was BS man, and Pipeman her killer. I do think it a little odd that Schwartz came forward so quickly, particularly as he may well have emigrated from a country where he was persecuted, and therefore might have been naturally distrustful of the police. And, of course, he couldn't speak English. Interestingly, the timing he gave, 12:45, also gives an alibi to both Eagle and Lave. And Lawende, Levy and Harris didn't come forward of their own volition , even though they could speak English. Their initial instinct seems to have been not to get involved.

I wonder if he may have recognized Eagle as BS man, who then convinced him that he was not the killer. He might then have induced him to come forward with a false description of BS man.

[c.d.]

Hello John,

If the club was not generally used for solicitation that would also imply that if Liz chose to do so there would be very little competition for customers.

If Pipeman were her killer, then just like the B.S. man, you have to wonder why he would go on to kill Stride after being scene by Schwartz.

c.d.

[John G]

Hello John,

If the club was not generally used for solicitation that would also imply that if Liz chose to do so there would be very little competition for customers.

If Pipeman were her killer, then just like the B.S. man, you have to wonder why he would go on to kill Stride after being scene by Schwartz.

c.d.

Hello c.d,

Schwartz doesn't notice Pipeman straight away, indicating that he may have been lurking in the shadows. And, of course, JtR was prepared to take risks, killing Eddowes, for example, despite being seen by Lawende, Levy and Harris.

However, a much bigger problem is that Schwartz states that Pipeman was following him. In other words, he was walking away from Stride and the Yard.

[c.d.]

Hello c.d,

Schwartz doesn't notice Pipeman straight away, indicating that he may have been lurking in the shadows. And, of course, JtR was prepared to take risks, killing Eddowes, for example, despite being seen by Lawende, Levy and Harris.

However, a much bigger problem is that Schwartz states that Pipeman was following him. In other words, he was walking away from Stride and the Yard.

Hello John,

But we have no way of knowing whether Jack was aware of being seen by Lawende et al and at that point he was only talking to a woman. So I don't know how much risk the killing of Eddowes involved.

c.d.

[John G]

Hello John,

But we have no way of knowing whether Jack was aware of being seen by Lawende et al and at that point he was only talking to a woman. So I don't know how much risk the killing of Eddowes involved.

c.d.

Hello c.d.,

Perhaps. Although if Stride was killed by JtR he may also have been seen by Long, Cox, Hutchinson, Marshall, PC Smith...

I've been thinking again about Pipeman. If he was the killer then perhaps he was following Schwartz in order to reassure himself that he wasn't going for help, or posed a possible threat. Once reassured, maybe he returned to Stride and enticed her into the Yard.

[pinkmoon]

P.c Smith is the most interesting witness as an on duty policeman he would be a lot more observant than a member of the public and that parcel he observed is very interesting indeed for him to work though we have to disregard schwaltz.

[John G]

P.c Smith is the most interesting witness as an on duty policeman he would be a lot more observant than a member of the public and that parcel he observed is very interesting indeed for him to work though we have to disregard schwaltz.

And, of course, he correctly identified the flower, unlike Marshall, Brown and Schwartz. I wonder if the package PC Smith saw could have contained a new pipe!

[Natasha]

Hi Natasha,

I think that this was a planned murder. I agree that Stride didn't think that the killer posed a threat, which is one of the reasons why I think she was murdered by an experienced killer. I disagree about Stride saying something that tipped the killer over the edge. If that had occurred, I would have expected a violent argument, and perhaps a fight, to have preceded the murder. However, the killer appeared to strike without warning, at a time when Stride was relatively relaxed, oblivious of the fate that awaited her- hence she was eating the cachous.

I would also note the short window of opportunity that the killer took advantage of-Lave, Eagle, Mortimer, and the couple seen by Mortimer, neither saw or heard anything.

By "deviation of the wounds", do you mean in respect of the differences between this murder and the other C5?

Hi John,

No, I mean the wounds inflicted on her neck tailed off in a downwards direction.
Not exactly a clean, straight forward cut. So is there anything that can tell us why that happened. I initially thought that perhaps the killer was shorter than Stride. Now I think there may have been some hesitation, after the attack, which makes me think this wasn't planned.

The Drs commented on the the deviation, when asked weather she could have done it herself, but there was no weapon found in her hand. So why did the wound deviate?

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Cris.

"The evidence points to Stride being taken down rapidly from behind. . ."

Can't argue here.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Eygle

Hello John.

"I've been reflecting further on Tom's scenario and I wonder if Eagle could have been BS man."

Yes, indeed. I think my biggest hesitation comes from his being as far away as Commercial.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

as an aside

Hello CD. Thanks.

"I was implying that something at Berner Street scared him off before he could begin the mutilations."

Oh, sure. Actually, if one wishes to go that route, the side door is better.

Cheers.
LC

[Natasha]

Schwartz is a curious character, I did have my suspicions about him, after all Berner street was a jewish neighbourhood. It's funny how he said they shouted "Lipski", that would to many people eliminate a jewish man fighting with Stride.

Why wait to go to the police indeed? If he wasn't that concerned why bother going in the first place, and if he was concerned why not act immediately by going to the police? Or at least getting the help of someone and going back to the scene.

[lynn cates]

consistent

Hello Natasha.

"If that seems unlikely, what do you think about the deviation of the wounds?"

Her neck wound was indeed less deep than the others and it tailed off. Of course, that would be consistent with her being cut whilst being lowered to the ground.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

points

Hello Gwyneth. A few quick points.

1. The club could, and did, serve alcohol.

2. But, at the time, the alcohol was probably NOT served.

3. But, on the other hand, would Liz have known all that?

Cheers.
LC