Dutfield's Yard Video

[richardh]

Well, it's the photo that is posted on another thread on these forums. And it's stayed on these forums so I'm hoping it's okay to reproduce here. Also, it's only a cropped bit of the full photo.

I have emailed Phil for permission to use the image but alas I've had no reply yet.

Is this photo allowed to be used?

Cheers
DRoy

[DRoy]

In the Hutchinson Dutfield's Yard photo, I need someone to explain what this is (circled in yellow)

Is this photo allowed to be used?

Cheers
DRoy

[MrBarnett]

bumb:
Anyone hazzard a guess on the above post?

Could it be an elbow?

[GUT]

I might as well add that I am not overly confident with either of those suggestions.

[GUT]

In the Hutchinson Dutfield's Yard photo, I need someone to explain what this is (circled in yellow)



I know that there was a fanlight above this door. My problem is that this 'ledge' (circled yellow) looks (to me) to be positioned above the club's side door. If is is, then the door would only measure 4' 5" (from the step to the 'ledge' measures 4'5"). Obviously this is rather a short door! So I'm guessing that this 'ledge' isn't what i think it is. Or is it?

any offers?

G'day Richard

I'll throw out two possibilities:

1. It is a Bar across the door used to secure the door, and that's my first shot. The bar being about 4'6" off the ground, slightly higher than where many of the modern push bars are today.

2. Are we sure it is the door in a former life I delivered kegs of beer to pubs and clubs, a lot of the old establishments, pre-refrigeration had a cellar and this was accessed via a door about 4 foot high that opened to a slide down which the kegs were rolled, whilst attached to a rope. The problem with this theory is that I cannot work out where the door is.

[richardh]

bumb:
Anyone hazzard a guess on the above post?

[richardh]

What's this?

In the Hutchinson Dutfield's Yard photo, I need someone to explain what this is (circled in yellow)



I know that there was a fanlight above this door. My problem is that this 'ledge' (circled yellow) looks (to me) to be positioned above the club's side door. If is is, then the door would only measure 4' 5" (from the step to the 'ledge' measures 4'5"). Obviously this is rather a short door! So I'm guessing that this 'ledge' isn't what i think it is. Or is it?

any offers?

[richardh]

I've been working on the model of Berner St. / Dutfield's Yard. I've now got the yard to the correct proportions - length/width/height.

Over the last few days I have been working on getting the model accurately replicated against the known images of the area. As a sort of side project I wanted to get that building in the background (the Goods Depot on Gowers Walk) to feature accurately in the model rather than just have a couple of roof apices sticking up the the background of the yard.

I've used the images (below) to plot and build the model and I was pleased to be able to get all views to line up nicely.

So:
a) Is the aerial shot of the Goods Depot (Rob Clack posted on another thread) Rob placed a dot (green) in the aprox location of the yard (yard out of shot). I've put on two dots (red & Yellow) to aid tracking from image to image.
b) Is the 'God View' showing the map that I had to stitch together with the model on top. Red & Yellow dots are marked again.
c) Is the photo taken down Fairclough St. showing the Goods Depot in the background. My model (yellow dot) is nicely lined up. Note the red dot is just out of frame view (as it was in the actual camera photograph).
d) Is the view into Dutfield's Yard. it is very close to the Hutchinson Dutfield's Yard 1900 shot which you can see VERY faintly in (d2). It is ghosted because I didn't want to use the actual image due to possible copyright infringement but I also wanted to show how close the model is to the photo. Note the red dot of the Goods Depot is exactly in the right place.

I think the red dot apex is the correct apex we see in the background of the Dutfield's Yard photo. There is a brick wall structure between the two apices (red dot apex and the one to its left) and the same brick wall structure can be seen in (a1) next to the red dot apex. I think the view of the depot on Fairclough Street is of the yellow apex although it's not really that important.




[Link below opens up the same image only bigger]
http://autumnofterror.com/imgDutfields/1321S.jpg



I'll have a version 2 video in about a week which will be vastly improved and also explore the stables and the back of the workingman's club etc.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Sir John

One question: how hard would it be to re create the lighting conditions of that night in 1888?

Yes I have to say that was partially in my mind when I asked in post #12

wonder if it'd feel much more confined in the dark?

It's not just that I wonder how close and claustrophobic the place might appear, for example to Diemschutz, in the 1888 lighting conditions, but also I'm wondering just how much Israel Schwartz might have been able to see on the threshold of the yard...or for that matter, exactly how much other witnesses might have been able to see, either passing by the yard, or through it...could they have seen a body for example?

Perhaps we're asking the impossible of Richard though...I guess it's all about light sources though, and that could be tricky...

All the best

Dave

[SirJohnFalstaff]

One question: how hard would it be to re create the lighting conditions of that night in 1888?

[sepiae]

That is excellent, richardh !
And the commentary isn't disturbing at all.
I'm also quite blown by the dimensions.
Thanks so much for this

[Robert]

H Richard

It's difficult to get inside his mind, given that his decision may have been a split second one. Logically, if he was going to go into the toilets then the thing to do would have been to leave the knife by the body and try to remove any blood in the toilets (might not have been much blood on him). If he was going to hide behind the gate and, if necessary, fight off Diemschutz then he'd have retained his knife. But it's impossible to get into his mind.

[anna]

What a great video..nice work !!!

Gives you the feel of actually being there and having a good look around.

I enjoyed it very much.

ANNA.

[richardh]

Thanks Mike for the great comment.
The reason I want to get this right is because I have always had difficulty imagining the scenes and the immediate environments and I think that to have a clear picture in the mind's eye of each of the scenes and surroundings will help my (our) understanding immeasurably. But of course the models need to be accurate or else it defeats the objective.

I could do with some info on the street (and yard) lighting. I know there was one gas lamp in the yard but where? If I can add realistic lighting and then turn the sun off we might get a good interpretation of light conditions on the night of the murder.

It is my opinion that Dutfield's Yard is the most important piece to iron out. The more we understand its dimensions and little hideyholes and passages, the more we may lose any certainty we may have had that the same killer of Nichols, Chapman and others wasn't at work here. Also, one could also conjecture the ease with which a club member or cottage-dweller (often the same) could have mingled, washed up a bit, and mingles again. Or how someone could have killed, heard a cart approach and easily avoid discovery. I eagerly look forward to the refinements and suggest that Richard should present his model(s) at the JTR conference. This kind of thing is groundbreaking.

Mike

[richardh]

Thanks John that was a very nice comment.

I put the grating there because I used the Hutchinson Dutfield's Yard 1909 photo as my guide. Here's the merged image for reference:



What I can do is place a reference body (like the wooden positioning mannequin I used in the Miller's Court models). That might actually be an interesting experiment.

except perhaps the location of the grating: It seems to me one of the witnesses (either constable or doctor) recorded that Stride's feet as almost touched the edge of the open gate, and that the grating was close to her head. I tried to picture her body in that position, and I wonder if the grate shouldn't be a little further away from the door and closer to the open gate?