Dutfield's Yard Video

[richardh]

Right, Last one tonight... victim's Knees up!

[richardh]

Funny, When I view the dark images on PC's at work they are VERY dark. But on my home one they look fine. I'm not sure if that's the case for anyone else here. GUT, what do the normal images look like (as opposed to that night time one)?

Ayone else find them too dark?

ta

[GUT]

Okay GUT, I'll get those knees up tomorrow. I'll get her in a semi-tight foetal position.

Here's the same image (above) only at night, with the gas lamp on the left cottages:



Of course it would have been a lot darker (almost pitch) than that and obviously the victim isn't dressed yet but I thought it looked quite atmospheric. Was only a quick 'night' test.

ta

I can't see a bl00dy thing but that might be my monitor.

[richardh]

Okay GUT, I'll get those knees up tomorrow. I'll get her in a semi-tight foetal position.

Here's the same image (above) only at night, with the gas lamp on the left cottages:



Of course it would have been a lot darker (almost pitch) than that and obviously the victim isn't dressed yet but I thought it looked quite atmospheric. Was only a quick 'night' test.

ta

[GUT]

Here's the latest attempt at victim position:



Click for More views

G'day Richard

I'd still like the knees pulled up a bit more, but I'm being picky. I think that one description said pulled up as if in pain.

[richardh]

Here's the latest attempt at victim position:



Click for More views

[GUT]

Like!

[richardh]

GUT
Any better?

[richardh]

Okay. Take a look at post #63 above (or click HERE). I've updated the victim's position based on Wickerman's drawings

@Archaic: I have included a wicket gate in the large yard gates. It's just not that visible. I'll try to make it a bit more obvious. Here's an image:

Granted it's not very obvious.

@GUT: I'll have a go at adjusting the grating. Maybe inset the bars into the wall hand have them going down below the level of the yard floor?

[GUT]

Hi Richard.

First of all I want to say thank you for all the work you've done; it's fantastic. It appears to me that there were more potential places to hide, and more potential ways of escape than Dutfield's Yard is usually credited with.

You asked us to give our critiques or point out any discrepancies.

One of the large wooden gates at the entrance to Dutfield's Yard had a smaller "wicket" gate set within it.

It's recorded as being the northern-most gate. In contemporary newspaper illustrations it's depicted as being set within the right-hand gate if one is standing in the street facing the yard entrance. This is the same side as the Working Man's Club. (See attachment; insert illustration upper left. Larger illustration shows part of this right-hand gate, but the center of it is blocked by pony cart.)

Wicket-gates were an old security measure designed to let one person at a time in or out without having to open the main gates. Sometimes wicket-gates were narrow human-height single doors without a raised thresh-hold, and other times they were much smaller doors or "hatches" that required a person to step over a raised threshold in order to enter or exit.

This smaller type of raised door was called a "manway", and if the news illustration is accurate that would appear to be the type of wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard.

I've thought about why there was a wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard, and I think it probably pre-dated the days of Hindley & Dutfield. The wicket-gate probably goes back to the Yard's earlier history when there would have been multiple horses in the stable and possibly guard dogs.

A "manway" type wicket-gate would have let the inhabitants in or out while keeping the horses and dogs safely contained within the yard, blocked the passage of vehicles, and made it much more difficult for thieves to enter or exit.

I recall reading a detective article from about 1877 which stated that an East-End 'factory' yard also had a gated entrance with a wicket-gate, so it seems to have been fairly common. (I can find the article if anyone is interested...I believe the factory was called "Byrles" or something similar.)

I've wondered if Elizabeth's Stride's killer could possibly have hidden behind the gate when Diemshutz entered with his pony, and then escaped via the wicket-gate or "hatch"?

Hope this information is helpful to you, and not a headache!

Best regards,
Archaic

G'day Richard

OK I was hoping Archaic's image would show up, but anyway you cen see in it what I was trying to say about the grating next to the body and how it appears to extend downward into the pavement.

[Archaic]

Wicket-Gate "Hatch" Set Within Yard Gates

Hi Richard.

First of all I want to say thank you for all the work you've done; it's fantastic. It appears to me that there were more potential places to hide, and more potential ways of escape than Dutfield's Yard is usually credited with.

You asked us to give our critiques or point out any discrepancies.

One of the large wooden gates at the entrance to Dutfield's Yard had a smaller "wicket" gate set within it.

It's recorded as being the northern-most gate. In contemporary newspaper illustrations it's depicted as being set within the right-hand gate if one is standing in the street facing the yard entrance. This is the same side as the Working Man's Club. (See attachment; insert illustration upper left. Larger illustration shows part of this right-hand gate, but the center of it is blocked by pony cart.)

Wicket-gates were an old security measure designed to let one person at a time in or out without having to open the main gates. Sometimes wicket-gates were narrow human-height single doors without a raised thresh-hold, and other times they were much smaller doors or "hatches" that required a person to step over a raised threshold in order to enter or exit.

This smaller type of raised door was called a "manway", and if the news illustration is accurate that would appear to be the type of wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard.

I've thought about why there was a wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard, and I think it probably pre-dated the days of Hindley & Dutfield. The wicket-gate probably goes back to the Yard's earlier history when there would have been multiple horses in the stable and possibly guard dogs.

A "manway" type wicket-gate would have let the inhabitants in or out while keeping the horses and dogs safely contained within the yard, blocked the passage of vehicles, and made it much more difficult for thieves to enter or exit.

I recall reading a detective article from about 1877 which stated that an East-End 'factory' yard also had a gated entrance with a wicket-gate, so it seems to have been fairly common. (I can find the article if anyone is interested...I believe the factory was called "Byrles" or something similar.)

I've wondered if Elizabeth's Stride's killer could possibly have hidden behind the gate when Diemshutz entered with his pony, and then escaped via the wicket-gate or "hatch"?

Hope this information is helpful to you, and not a headache!

Best regards,
Archaic

[Jon Guy]

thanks Jon, I'll see if I can find them.

It was over on JTRForums, here`s the link:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18558&page=6

[richardh]

thanks Jon, I'll see if I can find them.

I would suggest asking Jon (Wickerman) to send you his excellent sketches showing Stride`s position

[Jon Guy]

Okay, I'll get on to that tonight. Thanks for the feedback. So, basically she's lying on her left side in a 'loose' foetal postion with right hand across chest. I have the right hand across her belly at the moment. That left arm, is that okay to be sort of reaching out or should it be tucked in?

I would suggest asking Jon (Wickerman) to send you his excellent sketches showing Stride`s position

[Fisherman]

Okay, I'll get on to that tonight. Thanks for the feedback. So, basically she's lying on her left side in a 'loose' foetal postion with right hand across chest. I have the right hand across her belly at the moment. That left arm, is that okay to be sort of reaching out or should it be tucked in?

thanks
R

She was lying with her body resting upon her left upper arm, and the lower arm was reaching out, probably roughly in a straight angle to the upper arm.

The best,
Fisherman