6d. Did Liz spend it, or die for it?

[lynn cates]

Murder, he wrote.

Hello DDW.

"What was the point in murdering her by slitting her throat."

I'd go further, why murder her at all?

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Calling someone hard headed is a bit harsh as well.

What would you call someone who over and over again tells people the "facts" though we disagree with them? It is a daily thing. What would that be...opinionated?

Mike

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

If Stride is not a victim of "JTR" then who killed her? Please don't say Kidney. The number of women murdered by having their throats slit a year was low. What was the point in murdering her by slitting her throat. Sorry for crappy wording. It's late and drunk here. Hullo everyone, by the by!

[DRoy]

Mike,

I don't think Michael has seperated himself at all. You know as well as I do that the biggest names in Ripperology can't agree.

Calling someone hard headed is a bit harsh as well. Thinking outside the box like you suggest doesn't necessarily make you smarter. Thinking outside the box could just as easily make someone ignorant for ignoring what is truth and what proof is staring them right in the face.

If you have evidence Liz is a Ripper victim them please provide it. There are a lot of us that would eat crow for suggesting otherwise. Looking foward to it Mike.

Cheers
DRoy

[The Good Michael]

(but as it is she is the ONLY victim killed south of Commercial Street, and as such, her and Kate were not killed in the same "vicinity" as the others, which was Whitechapel/Spitalfield,

And Kelly was the only one killed at Miller's Court, Chapman was the only one named Chapman, Nichols rhymed with nickles....whatever. You have no hard evidence. You do have a hard head, however because you are incredibly slanted to some sort of nonsense in order to separate yourself for whatever reason. No one disputes your points. Get that in your head. Some of us see things in a different logical way, one that incorporates a holistic view of things whereas you are confined to such a small space that you are boxed in. take the lid off and see outside.

Mike

[DRoy]

Abby,

I have to agree with Mike. Of course there will be differences between the murders but there are major obvious differences with Liz which is why she's always been a 50/50 Ripper victim. Even the most influential in the field are split.

Cheers
DRoy

[Michael W Richards]

The only real difference between Stride and the others is she was not mutliated. Thats it. if you start noting all the minor differences in Liz then you have to for all the others and conclude that they were all killed by different men.

Abby, I just listed some facts, hard evidence that discounts your conclusion, ...body position in death, victimology, single wound, no evidence of mutilation interest present,...and for the record you made your most observant and salient point last, yes.....when you do see differences in some major elements within the crimes, you do have to consider other killers aside from Jacky boy.

Ive mentioned this before, and likely will again, but one of the most respected and scholarly contributors to the field of Ripperology was asked directly, by me, which Canonical murders in his opinion are most suggestive of the same killer. He said 2, or perhaps 3.

Now, its one thing to disagree with me, after all Im just a student, and unpublished, and an armchair sleuth, ...but an expoliceman with that kind of pedigree deserves to be considered strongly.

For me the actual number that is most probable is 2, but there's the unpublished student for ya.

What youve shown above is that people make their opinions based on many of the incorrect ideas that they had preconceived, not on the actual facts. There are quite a few here who see an argument that cannot be denied and yet they contest it because it flies in the face of their beliefs.

If nothing else, I would suggest that the opinions of people far more learned in this subject than you or I are better to use that our own instincts and biases.

Cheers Abby

[Abby Normal]

(1) Quick kill, certainly, but that is not evidence that Jack the Ripper killed her, after all, her throat is cut once, (2) Liz was was once a registered prostitute in Goteborg, Sweden as a teen..had herself stricken from the register due to "legitimate" work being found..known to have been a maid and a cleaning lady...occupied at the time of her death, for several months, as a cleaning lady, cleaned rooms her last day, (3) knife...well thats just the most convenient weapon for the times, lots of people carried knives, for all sorts of reasons..(4) Liz may have been killed while falling, and was found on her side, not her back, like other alleged Ripper victims, (5) London? ...you could have skipped that an gone to same vicinity for a better argument, but as it is she is the ONLY victim killed south of Commercial Street, and as such, her and Kate were not killed in the same "vicinity" as the others, which was Whitechapel/Spitalfield, (6-7) Late at night and dark? These are really silly and very weak Mike. But if you insist, She is killed earlier than any other alleged Canonical.

What you have done is list some "circumstantial" points that you believe suggest that the same killer killed Polly, Annie and Liz,... while ignoring the vast differences in the kills and objectives demonstrated in the actual evidence.

Im sure you would agree that evidence supersedes "belief" in Police Investigations at any time in history, why should this murder be any different?

Cheers Mike

The only real difference between Stride and the others is she was not mutliated. Thats it. if you start noting all the minor differences in Liz then you have to for all the others and conclude that they were all killed by different men.

[Michael W Richards]

Tons. Quick kill, throat cut, prostitute, not witnessed, knife, woman on the ground, London, same vicinity, late at night, dark,...just tons.

Mike

(1) Quick kill, certainly, but that is not evidence that Jack the Ripper killed her, after all, her throat is cut once, (2) Liz was was once a registered prostitute in Goteborg, Sweden as a teen..had herself stricken from the register due to "legitimate" work being found..known to have been a maid and a cleaning lady...occupied at the time of her death, for several months, as a cleaning lady, cleaned rooms her last day, (3) knife...well thats just the most convenient weapon for the times, lots of people carried knives, for all sorts of reasons..(4) Liz may have been killed while falling, and was found on her side, not her back, like other alleged Ripper victims, (5) London? ...you could have skipped that an gone to same vicinity for a better argument, but as it is she is the ONLY victim killed south of Commercial Street, and as such, her and Kate were not killed in the same "vicinity" as the others, which was Whitechapel/Spitalfield, (6-7) Late at night and dark? These are really silly and very weak Mike. But if you insist, She is killed earlier than any other alleged Canonical.

What you have done is list some "circumstantial" points that you believe suggest that the same killer killed Polly, Annie and Liz,... while ignoring the vast differences in the kills and objectives demonstrated in the actual evidence.

Im sure you would agree that evidence supersedes "belief" in Police Investigations at any time in history, why should this murder be any different?

Cheers Mike

[DRoy]

Mike,

Sorry, did not mean it that way at all. No disrespect. No game. Just pointing out what I would say are important differences. Your 10 reasons in my opinion don't match my 10 and I was just playing.

I've said it before, i'm not sold either way. I do however see problems with this murder being The Ripper.

Cheers
DRoy

[The Good Michael]

Mike,

Tons? Actually it was 10.

Here are 10 going the other way...well lit location, tons of people (okay, I mean about 30) around in all directions, no mutilation, Ripper now right handed, Liz was dressed nice, not strangled, fighting with her boyfriend, legs not parted, short knife, assulted 15 minutes before found dead...tons!

Not arguing with that. I was just saying what was similar because that was the question. What game are you playing?

Mike

[lynn cates]

scenario

Hello Abby. Thanks.

"So you mean the differences in how they were killed? As in how there throats we're cut differently?"

Yes. Try the following scenario. You are a police detective and have been called to a crime scene. A lady has had her throat cut, and a triangle carved into her left breast.

You release the following information to the press, name, age, physical description. Then you list cause of death as a cut throat, noting that a geometrical figure was carved into her left breast.

A second lady is killed within a week and, here, too, you find a cut throat and a triangle (roughly the same size) carved into her left breast. But the killer has also severed a finger. You release, roughly, the same information to the press as previously, adding that a finger was cut off. But, again, you mention ONLY that a geometrical figure was carved into the left breast.

Now, three weeks later you find yet another lady dead of a cut throat. Her finger is likewise severed. But a square is carved into her left breast.

How would you put these together? Well, there is a good chance that the severed finger story was found in the paper and so number three was following that story.

He may also have read "geometrical figure" and wrongly guessed square instead of triangle.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby. Thanks.

"by your reasoning then since all were slightly different, then they were all done by a slightly different man."

Not a bit of it. Again, this focuses on WHAT. I am focused on HOW.

Cheers.
LC

Hi LC
So you mean the differences in how they were killed? As in how there throats we're cut differently?

[lynn cates]

how

Hello Abby. Thanks.

"by your reasoning then since all were slightly different, then they were all done by a slightly different man."

Not a bit of it. Again, this focuses on WHAT. I am focused on HOW.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

A similarity is not an identity.

But you are right, of course. All were female.

Cheers.
LC

Then why not ascribe a different killer for each of the C5? They were all different, no?

Nichols-cut thoat, abdoman mutilated, no organs taken
Chapman-cut throat, abdoman mutilated uterus taken
Stride-cut throat, no mutilations
Eddowes-cut throat, abdoman mutlated, kidney and uterus taken, facial mutilations
kelly-cut throat, abdoman mutilated, heart taken, face mutilated, breasts removed, cuts to arms and legs

by your reasoning then since all were slightly different, then they were all done by a slightly different man.