Diemschutz arrival

[harry]

Why didn't Mrs Mortimer hear the sounds of a quarrel which Scwhartz says occured after he had crossed the road and passed Stride and the person he had been following,and who were then at the entrance of Duttfield Yard.Would Stride have raised her voice against BS after what is alledged to have happened?.I think so.I believe most women would.Here I believe Schwartz to again be telling the truth,and if Stride was raising her voice,she was hardly likely having her throat cut at the same time,or allowing herself near enough to receive further punishment.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. I was asking because, although I think she was standing, yet her head would have been close to the ground.

Cheers.
LC

Hmm, ok, well given that the knot (bow) of her scarf was pulled tight on her left side I envisage her attacker standing behind her to her left and takes both tail ends of her scarf in his hands and pulls tight.
Stride is, I suspect, facing the clubhouse wall.

Her legs collapse and she slumps to her left, he lets go of the scarf and pulls a knife stabbing underneath her neck on her left side and rips up towards himself. She is almost horizontal at this point. He probably held her face with his left hand.
Medical opinion appears conclusive she was on her side when her throat was cut.

Why she did not drop the cachous will be the eternal problem.

I'd like to know why Dr. Phillips calls her scarf a handkerchief, but then a neckerchief. Blackwell calls it a scarf.
I picture a scarf having tails perhaps long enough for a killer to grab and pull tight, yet a handkerchief suggests something smaller not suitable for grabbing.
If Phillips is correct and it was a small neckerchief/handkerchief then I don't see how it could be used to choke her.
This difference may only be the recorder's error.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

close to ground

Hello Jon. I was asking because, although I think she was standing, yet her head would have been close to the ground.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. How do you think Liz's head was positioned when she was cut?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

How her head was positioned?

What do you mean, looking forward, or to her left, or right?

Why do you ask?

Regards, Jon S.

[Abby Normal]

[QUOTE=Wickerman;241917]Hi Abby.

So you don't think that the lack of blood over her left shoulder and down her left side are sufficient indications that Stride was not on her feet when her throat was cut?

Regards, Jon S.[/QUO

Hi Wick
No.

[lynn cates]

scream

Hello Abby. Thanks.

"He might have and not even known it."

But if so, how could she scream?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

position

Hello Jon. How do you think Liz's head was positioned when she was cut?

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby.

"Has anyone considered the possibility that Stride's throat cut was not as deep as the others because, unlike the others she was not unconscious and lying on the ground when her throat was cut?"

Well, both Blackwell and I have. (See my re-enactment.)

"As in- she was awake and upright when her throat was cut. . ."

Not BOLT upright--no sign of that. But falling towards the ground.

". . . which accords with what Schwartz saw?"

Wasn't aware that Schwartz saw the throat cutting.

Cheers.
LC

He might have and not even known it.

[Wickerman]

Has anyone considered the possibility that strides throat cut was not as deep as the others because, unlike the others she was not unconscious and lying on the ground when her throat was cut? As in- she was awake and upright when her throat was cut, which accords with what Scwartz saw?

Hi Abby.

So you don't think that the lack of blood over her left shoulder and down her left side are sufficient indications that Stride was not on her feet when her throat was cut?

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

Why did Liz cross the road?

Hello Jon. Thanks.

And I thought that I was the ONLY crazy person around here.

Actually, I have always had a problem EVEN with Gardner and Betts. You see, their admonition to Liz sounds a bit apocryphal--know what I mean?

I, too, am happy with PC Smith. Wasn't the lad chatting with Liz ACROSS Berner st? if she were on the east side of Berner, then I wonder why?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Harry. Having Dimshits enter the yard at 1.00 and then discovering the body does not sit well with this snippet from "The Daily Telegraph."

"Constable Henry Lamb, 252 H division, examined by the coroner, said: Last Sunday morning, shortly before one o'clock, I was on duty in Commercial-road, between Christian-street and Batty-street, when two men came running towards me and shouting. I went to meet them, and they called out, "Come on, there has been another murder"."

Please to recall that, by his own testimony, Dimshits entered the yard AFTER seeing a clock read 1.00. Then the pony shied, then he probed with his whip handle, then he struck a match, then he went inside the club, then he announced his find, then the lads were sent for the police, then they accosted Lamb.

So his watch should have read about 1.10.

CAVEAT: if someone is contemplating the usual lecture about LVP time pieces, please refrain--claiming that his watch might have been 5-10 minutes slow is no more convincing than 5-10 minutes fast.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
P.C. Smith also suggests the murder had already occurred before 1:00 am. He says that two other constables were already at the yard when he came to the Commercial Rd. end of Berner St., it was then 1:00 am.

I have always preferred Smith's testimony (concerning his 12:35 am sighting) in this case, but this one other observation has struck me as odd, mainly because we are used to taking Diemschitz time as gospel, ..what if it wasn't?

Also, I think the couple Brown saw, and who Marshall saw, were the same courting couple, neither of them saw Stride that night.

Who did?
Only Best & Gardner, and P.C. Smith.
Schwartz?, I leave that open for now...

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

falling

Hello Abby.

"Has anyone considered the possibility that Stride's throat cut was not as deep as the others because, unlike the others she was not unconscious and lying on the ground when her throat was cut?"

Well, both Blackwell and I have. (See my re-enactment.)

"As in- she was awake and upright when her throat was cut. . ."

Not BOLT upright--no sign of that. But falling towards the ground.

". . . which accords with what Schwartz saw?"

Wasn't aware that Schwartz saw the throat cutting.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

what, how

Hello Garza. Thanks.

If you look at WHAT was done, yes, Polly was not disemboweled like Annie; but, if you look at HOW it was done, no two killings could be closer.

Remove Polly and I would completely agree.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

12.40

Hello Tom. Thanks.

I was referring to the two club members who were in the yard at 12.40.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

With respect, Tom, the differences between the throat wound sustained by Stride and those inflicted upon Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly are anything but minor. Of all the alleged Ripper victims Stride was the only one whose spinal column was not notched by the knife during the throat cutting process. She was also the only one whose left carotid artery was not completely severed. She was the only one, too, whose death was described by medical men as slow rather than immediate.

If memory serves me correctly, Tom, Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes were each wearing a scarf or neckerchief when killed. So why is it that such an accoutrement would prove problematic in the case of Stride and Stride alone?



Where is the evidence for these jagged stones? Given the fact, moreover, that Diemschutz was only able to distinguish the body of Stride after lighting a match, how was the killer able to see them even if they were there?



Unfortunately, Tom, this scenario does not accord with the evidence. In his initial medical assessment Dr Blackwell postulated that the scarf had been used to drag Stride backwards. In your interpretation of events Stride was dragged forwards – upwards and thus away from the ground on which she was lying. Again, where is the evidence for this contention?

There again, if there is any validity in the assertion that the killer elevated Stride’s head in order to cut her throat, this was a process that was so at odds with the Ripper’s established crime scene behaviour that it only adds weight to the contention that Stride was killed by a different hand.

Has anyone considered the possibility that strides throat cut was not as deep as the others because, unlike the others she was not unconscious and lying on the ground when her throat was cut? As in- she was awake and upright when her throat was cut, which accords with what Scwartz saw?