Diemschutz arrival

[Garza]

Hello Jon. Thanks. All I can offer is this. Take a tissue. Place some cachous (or match tips) in it. Put it in your palm and make a fist. Now, lie down and slowly let your grip relax.

If you find the cachous migrating from palm to fingertips, then I owe you a pint.

Cheers.
LC

You owe me a pint Lynn, just did it, 3 out of 5 times, tissue migrated to fingertips. Mines a Guinness, cheers.

[sleekviper]

Hello Jon
Thanks again. That seems odd; if the total time spent is six minutes from knock on Blackwell's door to checking his watch at the scene, why are people not leaving together? By the time there is a knock, answer, explanation, decision to send assistant, dress, and go, only two to two and a half minutes have passed. So they leave 20 to 30 seconds apart? The odd thing about that, besides the nano second timing, is why on earth would he want to walk alone, for the sake of 20 to 30 seconds, with a killer running about? Seems odd but whatever.

[lynn cates]

Are you suggesting that cachous migrate?

Hello Jon. Thanks. All I can offer is this. Take a tissue. Place some cachous (or match tips) in it. Put it in your palm and make a fist. Now, lie down and slowly let your grip relax.

If you find the cachous migrating from palm to fingertips, then I owe you a pint.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hello again Lynn

Very well. Have you a good explanation about how the cachous can move from fist to fingers AFTER her grip relaxed?

Gravity ?

If you equate pulling her scarf with struggle, I'm game. But the medicos and police preferred to express it in other terms.

I count the throat cut as part of the ensuing struggle.

[lynn cates]

relax

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Very well. Have you a good explanation about how the cachous can move from fist to fingers AFTER her grip relaxed?

If you equate pulling her scarf with struggle, I'm game. But the medicos and police preferred to express it in other terms.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Well, we know she DIDN'T make a fist around them. They were held between her thumb and forefinger. That is clearly not a fist.

This is how they were found after death, and Blackwell noted that her hand had relaxed it`s grip.

Most ladies with whom I have experience wear them straight. Hers was pulled left. This indicates a pulling of her scarf.

Yes, exactly, the sign of a struggle that I mentioned.

[lynn cates]

forensics

Hello Abby. Thanks.

"He may pulled her into the yard or maybe she ran into the yard to get away (and towards the voices she heard coming from the club) and he followed her in and caught her there. Also, either one of these scenarios could have occured before or after he cut her throat."

Ran into the yard AFTER her throat was cut? I'll have to think about that one.

"And I don't care about the stupid cachous argument."

Very well. Perhaps you would not be bothered by the following argument.

1. Decedent has one gunshot wound to the back.

2. Decedent has no exit wound.

3. Assailant claims self defense ("He was coming towards me. I told him, 'Stop.' He didn't. I fired once into the chest.")

4. We rule it a case of justifiable homicide--self-defense.

"Many victims of violent crimes and accidents for that matter are found still clutching something in there hands."

Absolutely agree. And in each case, the undropped object allows us a way to reconstruct what happened at the moment of death.

"Bottom line is you either believe Scwartz or you dont, and until there is any evidence that a witness is lying/wrong then I beleive them. And since he is the last witness to see her alive and also witnessed her being assaulted by a man- chances are that man is her killer."

IF the story is true, THEN most likely BS did for Liz. Of course, the forensics conundrum MUST be dealt with.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fist

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Why wouldn`t she make a fist around them to defend herself instead of dropping them and slapping her assailant."

Well, we know she DIDN'T make a fist around them. They were held between her thumb and forefinger. That is clearly not a fist.

"Signs of a struggle, well, she may have liked to wear it that way but wasn`t her scarf pulled tight and to the side."

Most ladies with whom I have experience wear them straight. Hers was pulled left. This indicates a pulling of her scarf.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Bottom line is you either believe Scwartz or you dont, and until there is any evidence that a witness is lying/wrong then I beleive them. And since he is the last witness to see her alive and also witnessed her being assaulted by a man- chances are that man is her killer.

If I may Abby, no witness can be considered viable unless the content of their story is somehow corroborated by some other trusted evidence. A witness can give statements that contain both errors and misrepresentations, only a thorough evaluation of the hard evidence can sort out what is what. For example... until Tuesday evening the week after the murders we had only Fanny Mortimers word for what she saw at around 12:56 in front of the gates, once Leon Goldstein came in and stated it was him, then it becomes a trustworthy piece of evidence. When you find witnesses corroborating each other inadvertently, if they were unconnected before they became witnesses to some event, then any element corroboration is more powerful. An example of that in this case would be Spooners story timeline and Isaac K's timeline given shortly after the crime.

In this instance all club connected witness stories must be accepted carefully,... (even when corroborating each other or, as in the case of Lave and Eagle, missing such an opportunity, when by their stories they were both apparently in the passageway at the same time, 12:40am),...because the club itself and therefore its members could not afford suspicions to be cast upon those in attendance at the time.

Someone asked why would Diemshitz lie,...a very simple reason could be because he and others discussed a course of action when they first found the body that took some minutes away from seeking an official to assist them. As the club steward he might have felt pressure to deflect and suspicions from his comrades, some proof of this notion may be found in the accounts given that night, a few men had already gathered around the dead woman before anyone was sent for help.

Best regards

[Tom_Wescott]

On the subject of basic facts, Tom, are you absolutely certain that Stride’s body was not moved after her throat was cut? If it was, her head may not have been positioned directly above the ‘makeshift gutter’ during the throat cutting process. If it wasn’t, the killer inflicted the neck wound whilst Stride was lying on her side – curious indeed given that Jack the Ripper consistently cut his victims’ throats whilst they lay in a supine position.

Hi Garry, yes I'm rather certain that her neck lie over the stones when cut, as a pool of blood had settled on the larger rock and ran into the gutter from there. There was no blood anywhere else. As for 'supine position', the other women were turned to their side and cut and bled that way, just as Stride was. That's why we have a puddle of blood to the LEFT of Eddowes, and that's why fences to the LEFT of Chapman was blood spattered, yet nothing to her right, and that's why the wall to the RIGHT of Kelly was painted in blood.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Abby Normal]

Hello Abby. Thanks.

I wonder if it could also explain how Liz then dragged herself from the purported point of assault, into the yard (and without any signs of dragging to her dress), AND without spilling the cachous?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn
He may pulled her into the yard or maybe she ran into the yard to get away (and towards the voices she heard coming from the club) and he followed her in and caught her there. Also, either one of these scenarios could have occured before or after he cut her throat.

And i dont care about the stupid caschous argument. many victims of violent crimes and accidents for that matter are found still clutching something in there hands.

Bottom line is you either believe Scwartz or you dont, and until there is any evidence that a witness is lying/wrong then I beleive them. And since he is the last witness to see her alive and also witnessed her being assaulted by a man- chances are that man is her killer.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

And all that time she held on to the cachous AND showed no signs of struggle?

I `d expect her to hold on to the cachous.
Why wouldn`t she make a fist around them to defend herself instead of dropping them and slapping her assailant. I don`t think she was a lady, Lynn.

Signs of a struggle, well, she may have liked to wear it that way but wasn`t her scarf pulled tight and to the side.

That would be remarkable.

In your eyes .. ;-)

[lynn cates]

killer on the loose

Hello Miakaal. Thanks.

"That's what I'm saying. But he didn't run down the street he ran in doors!"

Did he explain the facts to others? Would not the others be alarmed that a killer was present in the yard?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Miakaal4

Yes, he could only make out that it was a body so he went inside to check his wife was okay. Nothing strange there ?

[lynn cates]

remarkable

Hello Jon. Thanks.

And all that time she held on to the cachous AND showed no signs of struggle? That would be remarkable.

Cheers.
LC