Stride Bruising

[Bridewell]

They could have met anywhere and walked up to the gates before Schwartz came along.

Inside the IWMEC perhaps?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

Chest Bruise

Now what do you make of that chest bruise?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hi Tom,

BS Man seems to have been quite a powerful guy and Liz Stride was quite a slightly built woman. If he knelt on her chest, she wouldn't cry out because she wouldn't be able to breathe. I offer that only as a possibility, not as a definite btw.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Addy]

Hi Lynn,

It looks ok to me, it could very well be that it happened this way, especially the way her throat was cut.

Greetings,

Addy

[lynn cates]

Blackwell

Hello Addy. Thanks. I got the idea from Dr. Blackwell.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

If he knelt on her chest, .....

Her back would have been plastered with mud....

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

I still say the cachous isn't that big of a mystery. She had no money on her when found, though she should have had some. Her clothes had not been interfered with after death. This suggests she was robbed before she was murdered and the cachous was in her hand because it was in the same pocket with the loose change that she took out for the murder. Same M.O. we see in Hanbury Street and Mitre Square where each of the victims also had personal items nearby.

Nobody want to touch this?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Not with a 10 ft poll.

This has been already discussed in the past. I think the idea of a fake robbery fits with Chapman's ring intendations on her fingers and possibly with Eddowes as well. As for Stride, one of her pockets was intact, if I'm not mistaken.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Maria. When people are robbed, their pockets are generally left in tact. Nothing regarding what I posted would suggest the necessity to cut Stride's pockets. Quite the opposite, actually. And for the record, it's the most sensible and likely solution to the cachous mystery ever presented. I would ask if anyone would care to know what the second most sensible solution is - which has never yet been put forth - but clearly they'd rather talk about flowers. And they're not even getting that right.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Hi Maria. When people are robbed, their pockets are generally left in tact. Nothing regarding what I posted would suggest the necessity to cut Stride's pockets.

Tom, with "intact" I meant that the contents of one of her pockets were intact, as in, still inside of her pocket. Unless I'm misremembering this?

I would ask if anyone would care to know what the second most sensible solution is - which has never yet been put forth

When I first came to Ripperology I was envisioning Stride having initially offered her client/not yet assailant cachous. Have to confess I haven't thought about this for quite some time.

I'm afraid I don't have my mind much on Ripperology right now. My laptop had a fall off my desk and the metal part of the charge cable (which was the last one on American soil) tore and opened up like Stride's flower. Luckily I recently got a spare charge cable from France which I'm using now, otherwise my comp would go dead in less than an hour, and I've got a deadline! (Charge cable before last overheated and caught fire like a barbecue when I was in Chicago, lol. Apple hardware is a bit flimsy.)

[lynn cates]

robbery

Hello Tom. Very well. Let's talk briefly of robbery.

I suppose that, in this scenario, the assailant takes Liz into the yard, just west of the open gates, and has her stand against the building for a "transaction." So far, so good.

Now he puts the tip of his knife into her back and explains that, if she screams, she's dead. Assume further that she does not panic and scream involuntarily. I think I can live with that.

Next, she is ordered to give him her money. Assume she has still the 6d from work.

3 scenarios:

1. Cachous and change both in left pocket.

2. Cachous and change both in right pocket.

3. Cachous and change in alternate pockets.

Two is quite awkward and would require a transfer from hand to hand.

Three seems to preclude her left hand going inside that pocket at all, as surely the assailant had no use for cachous. So let's try one.

She reaches into her left pocket and draws out both change and cachous. Just then there is some movement to the throat and her hand clenches. Next she is lain gently down, throat cut, etc.

I think that my problems are:

1. To have the change in the clenched palm whilst the cachous is between thumb and forefinger.

2. To have her assailant prise open her hand to extract the change and yet leave the thumb and forefinger together and holding the cachous tightly.

I wonder if something like this could be reproduced? It might provide a convenient study aid.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cachous

Hello (again) Tom. From my point of view:

1. Liz met her assailant at the side door of the club.

2. They began to walk out to the gates and towards the street.

3. Liz paused for one of the cachous--much as one pauses momentarily for a cigarette.

4. The assault occurs.

Cheers.
LC

[Bridewell]

The Mud

Her back would have been plastered with mud....

Regards, Jon S.

Indeed. Apologies for not working that one out myself, Jon.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Bridewell]

She had no money on her when found, though she should have had some.

She'd started out with sixpence. What reason is there to be sure that she hadn't spent it during the course of the evening?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Addy]

on, among other things, cachous?

Greetings,

Addy

[curious4]

Geraniums and cachous

Hello Wickerman,

Apologies for not directing my last to you directly - was in a rush to go out.

This from Dickens` Martin Chuzzlewick, chapter 48: "..and Ruth had fastened a sprig of geranium in Tom`s buttonhole....".

I think we have to answer the question as to why Liz was waiting outaide the club, and I don't think she was soliciting - not with the place full of wives and girlfriends. She wasn't desperate for money - she had the piece of velvet to sell if she had been, even if she had spent/lost her sixpence, possible on the cachous to freshen her breath. To my mind there are two explanations: one: Jack had left her there and told her to wait - possibly to visit the loos in the yard, could have hidden his knife there earlier, and two; whoever had been treating her all evening was an accomplice, ("someone not directly involved in the murder.."), who was to keep her happy and available and put her where Jack had planned to do his killing if her wanted to implicate the Jews. I believe I remember seeing on a map of Mitre Square that there was a large synagogue somewhere behind the square, so perhaps he hadn't given upp the idea altogether.

I see Liz meeting her end happily waiting for her "friend" and chomping on cachous.

Disprove me if you can,
C4