Stride Bruising

[mariab]

Does anybody know if the doctor ever explained his remark about seeing shoulder bruising in two other murder cases and "watching for" them? Was he referring to suspected Ripper murders, and if so does anybody know which ones?

Bunny, that's what I thought too initially, but these other "two occasions“ refer to Stride's body. Like Cris/Hunter explained below, Dr. Phillips returned to the mortuary on at least two more occasions after the initial postmortem at 15.00 p.m. Monday, Oct 1. As reported in The Times, "On Tuesday I again went to the mortuary to observe the marks on the shoulders." He mentions that he, Dr. Brown and Dr. Blackwell returned to the mortuary for a third time before that session of the inquest commenced. They checked for a change in the discoloration, as the blood settled in the body and decomposition set in.

[lynn cates]

and then . . .

Hello Addy. Thanks.

"I don't want to make mysteries where there are none, however the fact is that she held those cachous for some reason or other. And that reason will probably remain a mystery!"

Well, if I have anything in my hand, and there is a tightening around my throat, I will clench spasmodically.

"Indeed, Kate's clothers were torn but that doesn't surprise me, seeing how she was mutilated. Her killer tore her clothes to get to her body. This wasn't the case with Liz."

Nor Annie, whose mutilations, in some ways, resembled Kate's.

"Solid evidence for what?"

Different knives. (I would cheer you if you did.)

"I think that her throat was cut when she was standing up. The puncture in the artery was probably not enough to cause arterial spurt. The puncture is a fact."

Well, surely not bolt upright? Blackwell suggested she may have been on the way to the ground. (See my re-enactment.)

"The doctor who examined Liz stated she was killed with a different knife than the other victims, so I take this as a fact."

Are you certain? I'd LOVE to see this.

"As all this happened so long ago and a lot of documents are missing I think this is as close to solid evidence as you get."

Probably correct.

"Do you think, if it was BS man, that they met at the gates?"

Or just outside, according to the story.

"They could have met anywhere and walked up to the gates before Schwartz came along."

But did not IS observe BS before he arrived at #40?

"He wasn't standing there, he came walking down the street, so they could have arrived there shortly before he passed by, comng up from wherever they met."

But see the story.

"If you don't think it was BS man, who do you think killed Liz Stride? (Out of curiosity)"

I still favour someone who had it in for the club.

Cheers.
LC

[Addy]

Hi Lynn,

I've read about the different knives somewhere, I'll try to find the book. I mean the mystery is why she took the cachous in her hand at that moment, naturally she would clench her fist when her throat was cut.

She could very well have been on her way to the ground when her throat was cut, so no, not bold upright.

You're right, Schwartz walked behind BS man before they met, so BS man and Stride met just outside the gates.

Greetings,

Addy

[lynn cates]

re-enactment

Hello Addy. Thanks. Hope you can find that. Sounds interesting.

Have you looked at my re-enactment of the killing? How far does it coincide with your view?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Incidentally, the fact that the bruising was not immediately apparent, but slowly rose under the skin following death, suggests it's peri mortem bruising, which means it occurred within a few minutes either before or after death....

Now what do you make of that chest bruise?

Whatever is made of the bruising, Chapman appears to have had the same or similar bruising. So it might be well to consider them both being assaulted in a similar fashion. If any envisaged scenario works for one, but not the other, then its probably wrong.

Regards, Jon S.

[Tom_Wescott]

I still say the cachous isn't that big of a mystery. She had no money on her when found, though she should have had some. Her clothes had not been interfered with after death. This suggests she was robbed before she was murdered and the cachous was in her hand because it was in the same pocket with the loose change that she took out for the murder. Same M.O. we see in Hanbury Street and Mitre Square where each of the victims also had personal items nearby.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Addy]

Hi Lynn,

No I haven't seen your re-enactment. Where can I find it?

Greetings,

Addy

[curious4]

Liz

Hello all,

Red rose backed with a maidenhair fern. Late in the season for roses, so probably a hot-house flower. Sounds like a man's buttonhole (as worn at weddings these days, but men wore them more often at the time). I see her companion, whoever he was, as taking it from his jacket/coat
and pinning it to Liz's jacket and making her a present of the cachous. I don't see her soliciting, even if she had lost/spent her sixpence, she still had the piece of velvet which she had left with a friend and which she could easily have sold.

About the bruising, I think we decided last time that the good doctor meant that he had been keeping an eye on it, but he was by all accounts an old-fashioned man and could well have been using the word in its older meaning of "previously".

Best wishes,
C4

[lynn cates]

walk through

Hello Addy. Thanks. Try here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a95rqNxxbiM

Thoughts?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

flower

Hello C4. One witness thought a different kind of flower.

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Flower

Hello Lynn,

Yes, Packer said "like a geranium", but don't you think he might have been referring to it being a buttonhole flower, as a geranium was the flower of choice if you didn't have access to hot-house flowers?

Cheers,
C4

[Cogidubnus]

Ahhh...I knew if I waited long enough...

Dave

[curious4]

Geraniums

Hello again Lynn,

Actually there don't seem to be many red and white geraniums and those who come close seem to be newer varieties. There is one called Buttons n Bones, but I don't know how old the variety is. (prepare for a wave of geranium lovers itching to prove me wrong).

Lol,
C4

[Cogidubnus]

Arguably the white colouration was a dressing popularly applied to buttonhole flowers at the time...

Dave

[curious4]

Geranium

Sorry but nah. Don't you think anyone at the time would see the difference if it was a common practice?

Best wishes,
C4

P.S. Having taken this statement on face value, I did a bit of checking up. I wonder whether whoever came up with it is confusing a "spray of Baby's Breath" (a flower used as background to other flowers) with something actually sprayed on - different uses of the word. (check in online free dictionary)