Stride Bruising

[Wickerman]

.... Packer may have been a liar but that doesn't mean grapes weren't possible.

Aye, but Packer didn't invent the grapes, he just claimed to have sold them.
Him lying about selling the grapes does not make them disappear.

The presence of grapes in her hand were the product of both Diemshitz and Kozebrodski together, and, Swanson mentioned the grapes in his report.

The serious question is, why should those two men claim to have seen grapes?

[curious]

I had to assure her that murder has been banned in all fifty states and territories.

Cheers.
LC

Hi, Lynn,
That was good for a chuckle. Doesn't the ban really stretch further than that?

curious

[Observer]

Thanks D!

Yes wrong thread for grapes, unless the bruises were grape juice! I once championed the cause of Matt Packer. I speculated that he wasn't too fond of the police, thus he decided not to help them when he was initialy interviewed on the day following the murder. I think the press in all probabiliyt based their grape stories on Packer's statement. As you say though, another thread.

Regards

Observer

[DRoy]

Observer,

You make me laugh! Good post!

Not a chance of grapes? Bold statement. I know few believe it but it is absolutely possible. Packer may have been a liar but that doesn't mean grapes weren't possible.

Looks like we found something besides Mortimer to discuss my friend! Probably better in a different thread though.

Cheers
DRoy

[Observer]

I'm not so sure we can even believe in that. What she told a reporter was:

"....The woman appeared to me to be respectable, judging by her clothes, and in her hand were found a bunch of grapes and some sweets."

That could easily be construed as her being told about the grapes, not that she saw them herself. Maybe its just a reporters poor choice of wording, or maybe Mortimer did not see the grapes herself at all.

Hi Wickerman

Absolutely. Not a chance there were any grapes anywhere near Liz Stride. Although read a report where Mortimer claimed Liz had a half eaten Big Mac tucked in her dress. Those press lads, they do make you laugh do they not?

Regards

Observer

[DRoy]

Jon,

I agree with you. In fact, much of Mortimer's comments in the paper seem to suggest she got info from others. She obviously spoke with Lewis as she told his story almost word for word.

All that being said though, I do believe she was one of the earliest spectators on the scene so there may be some validity behind what she personally saw. In my opinion at least at this time is that she picked the grape story up.

Cheers
DRoy

[Wickerman]

....., it's fine to remind them that she had seen grapes.

I'm not so sure we can even believe in that. What she told a reporter was:

"....The woman appeared to me to be respectable, judging by her clothes, and in her hand were found a bunch of grapes and some sweets."

That could easily be construed as her being told about the grapes, not that she saw them herself. Maybe its just a reporters poor choice of wording, or maybe Mortimer did not see the grapes herself at all.

[lynn cates]

behaviour

Hello Pat. Thanks.

"the result was that her fingers and thumbs clamped shut and she had great trouble using them after that.
Maybe this happened to Liz?"

Possibly. But the problem involves, "Why take them out in the first place?"

Surely not appropriate behaviour in mid-attack?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

method to my madness

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Had her thumb & finger(s) closed up around the paper pkg?"

Alright. We'll begin here. It was a piece of tissue containing the cachous. Can we construct any scenario with such a piece of paper accidentally lodged there? Bloody difficult.

"I don't know Lynn, the whole question is innocuous. . ."

Disagree, most vehemently.

". . . yet at the same time hard to explain."

Not necessarily. That was one of the main points behind my re-enactment. I wished to show:

1. A possible way in which she would be comfortable and take out the cachous from her pocket.

2. Hold on to them whilst having her throat cut.

Could be wrong, but all parts worked out perfectly.

"I don't see solving the riddle will get us any nearer to identifying her killer, but that's just me."

But it could explain why she was there, her circumstances, etc. Once THAT is ascertained . . .

Cheers.
LC

[Paddy]

Finger and Thumb

I had a friend once that had some sort of nerve shock (it was said possibly from the neck) the result was that her fingers and thumbs clamped shut and she had great trouble using them after that.
Maybe this happened to Liz?

Pat....................

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.

Well, actually it's worse than that. They were lodged between the thumb and forefinger (one report has thumb and fourth finger--but that makes no sense).

I understand what was observed, but that was after she expired. Had her thumb & finger(s) closed up around the paper pkg?

I don't know Lynn, the whole question is innocuous yet at the same time hard to explain. I don't see solving the riddle will get us any nearer to identifying her killer, but thats just me.

[DRoy]

Hi Curious,

I'm trying to find a worse headache than cachous, that's why.

Beside, since these days people trust Mortimer more than Schwartz, it's fine to remind them that she had seen grapes.

Cheers

Dave,

Haha gotta love Mortimer! I'm not sure whether you are kidding or not about the grapes but I have changed my opinion and believe she had them. No, not just because Mortimer said so!

Cheers
DRoy

[DRoy]

Hi Roy

... that is certainly what he did. Schwartz or Pipeman could bump into a constable and bring him back.
I believe he was already gone when Diemshutz arrived.

Cheers

Dave,

Agreed. There is not even a tiny piece of me that would believe the killer stuck around to 'set the stage'. He cut and ran.

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

snuff

Hello Dave. Thanks.

Funny you should mention that. When I taught "Contemporary Moral Problems" at University, we covered pornography. When we discussed the snuff film, one girl asked, "What's a snuff film?" I replied as you may imagine.

But when I gave her the REAL definition her eyes got big and she asked, "Umm, isn't that, like, illegal?"

I had to assure her that murder has been banned in all fifty states and territories.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Does this mean that Lynn's next reconstruction is going to be a Snuff Movie?

All the best

Dave